1983 GL, project: Cheap Thrills
- Thread starter great white
- Start date
great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Unfortunately, I won't be driving it next summer. There's just too much work to be done. My goal is for it to be able to move under it's own power and be mechanically sound.
Realistically, the car is at least 2-3 years from being even a weekend driver.
Realistically, the car is at least 2-3 years from being even a weekend driver.
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
OK. Slight course change here.
Right now, I've got the 7.5 axle in it with the SN95 28 spline axle shafts and disc brakes.
This weekend, I'm picking up a fox 8.8 axle housing. bare, nothing in it.
I've found an explorer 8.8 with 3.73 gears and trac lok and here is where things get a little "wonky".
The explorer differential is 31 spline. So while it will bolt into the fox 8.8, the 28 spline shafts won't work with it. The 31 spline axles are also a larger diameter than the 29 spline shafts, so the wheel bearing for the fox won't work with the explorer 31 spline shafts either. There are no "conversion bearings" available in the correct dimensions either. The actual housing tube is also a larger diameter on the explorer axle.
The explorer axle has different brackets so it won't bolt into the fox. Even if it did, the center section is offset 2" so one axle tube is too long, one is too short. Additionally, the upper control arm mounts for the fox aren't even cast into the explorer center section housing.
So, my options as I see them:
1. explorer differential into the fox housing, order some aftermarket 31 spline axle shafts that fit the fox housing.
Pro: quick and easy, drops right in with nothing more than a socket set and a few measuring tools. I get a 31 spline trac lok carrier and axle shafts for added strength over the 29 spline.
Con: Fox 31 spline axle shafts don't come cheap and if I ever need one again I have to order them out of the states and wait.
2. Explorer diff into fox housing. Use two passenger side explorer OEM axles (same length as the Sn95 axle shafts) and cut/weld the explorer tube ends on the fox axle (in order to use the bigger explorer wheel bearing for the bigger shafts).
Pro: just my time for setup and labor. OEM parts except for the fox tube alterations. I get 31 spline shafts, larger wheel bearings and seals and bearings are same as OEM (can get them anywhere)
Con: welding tube ends on can be tricky on the thin ford axle tubes. Warpage can lead to toe and caster problems. welding larger tubes on to smaller tubes can also be tricky and could compromise strength if done poorly.
3. Alter the Explorer axle to fit the fox.
Pro: all OEM stuff except the tube lengths.
Con: Driver side tube need to be shortened, lower control arm brackets need to be torched off the fox and welded on the explorer, need to get the pinion angle correct, possibility of tube warpage still need to source another passenger side explorer axle shaft and the explorer axle doesn't have the top 2 fox mounts so I'd need to install a panahard bar and torque arm just to move the car around under it's own power (time and $$$ is the limiting factor as the car will eventually get a panhard bar and torque arm anyways).
Option 1 seems easiest, but most expensive. Option 2 seems most "frugal", but higher chance to mess it up. Option 3 sounds expensive and a nightmare to complete correctly.
Right now I'm thinking option 2 sounds best for my particular situation. I have to wait until I get everything side by side and do some measurements to know for sure.
Either way, the explorer axle is too good a deal to pass up and a 31 spline rear axle will put an end to any concerns about the rear end whether I'm playing at autocross style events, drag racing or just a hard pop on the street. Picking up the explorer axle is worth it even if all I get out of it is the ring and pinion and some hardware (bolts and such).
Right now, taking int o account the fuel I'm going to spend to gather it all up, I could potentially have a 31 spline fox axle for 150-200 bucks.
That's pretty darned good!
Right now, I've got the 7.5 axle in it with the SN95 28 spline axle shafts and disc brakes.
This weekend, I'm picking up a fox 8.8 axle housing. bare, nothing in it.
I've found an explorer 8.8 with 3.73 gears and trac lok and here is where things get a little "wonky".
The explorer differential is 31 spline. So while it will bolt into the fox 8.8, the 28 spline shafts won't work with it. The 31 spline axles are also a larger diameter than the 29 spline shafts, so the wheel bearing for the fox won't work with the explorer 31 spline shafts either. There are no "conversion bearings" available in the correct dimensions either. The actual housing tube is also a larger diameter on the explorer axle.
The explorer axle has different brackets so it won't bolt into the fox. Even if it did, the center section is offset 2" so one axle tube is too long, one is too short. Additionally, the upper control arm mounts for the fox aren't even cast into the explorer center section housing.
So, my options as I see them:
1. explorer differential into the fox housing, order some aftermarket 31 spline axle shafts that fit the fox housing.
Pro: quick and easy, drops right in with nothing more than a socket set and a few measuring tools. I get a 31 spline trac lok carrier and axle shafts for added strength over the 29 spline.
Con: Fox 31 spline axle shafts don't come cheap and if I ever need one again I have to order them out of the states and wait.
2. Explorer diff into fox housing. Use two passenger side explorer OEM axles (same length as the Sn95 axle shafts) and cut/weld the explorer tube ends on the fox axle (in order to use the bigger explorer wheel bearing for the bigger shafts).
Pro: just my time for setup and labor. OEM parts except for the fox tube alterations. I get 31 spline shafts, larger wheel bearings and seals and bearings are same as OEM (can get them anywhere)
Con: welding tube ends on can be tricky on the thin ford axle tubes. Warpage can lead to toe and caster problems. welding larger tubes on to smaller tubes can also be tricky and could compromise strength if done poorly.
3. Alter the Explorer axle to fit the fox.
Pro: all OEM stuff except the tube lengths.
Con: Driver side tube need to be shortened, lower control arm brackets need to be torched off the fox and welded on the explorer, need to get the pinion angle correct, possibility of tube warpage still need to source another passenger side explorer axle shaft and the explorer axle doesn't have the top 2 fox mounts so I'd need to install a panahard bar and torque arm just to move the car around under it's own power (time and $$$ is the limiting factor as the car will eventually get a panhard bar and torque arm anyways).
Option 1 seems easiest, but most expensive. Option 2 seems most "frugal", but higher chance to mess it up. Option 3 sounds expensive and a nightmare to complete correctly.
Right now I'm thinking option 2 sounds best for my particular situation. I have to wait until I get everything side by side and do some measurements to know for sure.
Either way, the explorer axle is too good a deal to pass up and a 31 spline rear axle will put an end to any concerns about the rear end whether I'm playing at autocross style events, drag racing or just a hard pop on the street. Picking up the explorer axle is worth it even if all I get out of it is the ring and pinion and some hardware (bolts and such).
Right now, taking int o account the fuel I'm going to spend to gather it all up, I could potentially have a 31 spline fox axle for 150-200 bucks.
That's pretty darned good!
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
hmmmm, a quick perusal of specs seems to put the explorer axle shaft approx 1/2 longer than the sn95 shaft. That would put the tire outside edge dead even with the rear wheel well flare.
Not sure I can make that work without getting into some fairly serious alterations to the body and wider rear track than front track will introduce some handling oddities.
I might end up coughing up for some aftermarket 31 spline axle shafts after all.
Still, that should put me right around the 400-500 dollar mark for a fox 31 spline rear disc 8.8 axle with 3.73 and trac lok. Still a pretty good out the door price for a "set it and forget it" axle.....
Not sure I can make that work without getting into some fairly serious alterations to the body and wider rear track than front track will introduce some handling oddities.
I might end up coughing up for some aftermarket 31 spline axle shafts after all.
Still, that should put me right around the 400-500 dollar mark for a fox 31 spline rear disc 8.8 axle with 3.73 and trac lok. Still a pretty good out the door price for a "set it and forget it" axle.....
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Yep. Only problem with a near "bulletproof" rear axle is the weak link now becomes the drive shaft or transmission.
I'll have to eventually crack open the T5 and do something about the torque rating.
Its a stock v6 T5, which has a 265 ft/lb rating. While this is the same as the 80's WC T5 behind the 5.0 HO cars, it's still pretty low overall. Lots of stories of ham fisted stick jockey's breaking T5's behind essentially stock engines way back when. I like to think I'm not a ham fisted shifter, but everyone cocks up a shift or gets a little frisky from time to time....
There's a few things you can do (like a steel input retainer) but I'm looking at replacing gearsets to up the torque rating substantially. Even then, I'll still only be looking at 300 ft/lbs or so (what the cobra T5 was rated at with hardened/high nickle gearsets)
300 Ft/lbs should be enough for my car, but driving hard out of a second gear corner is going to be putting it to the test...
I'll have to eventually crack open the T5 and do something about the torque rating.
Its a stock v6 T5, which has a 265 ft/lb rating. While this is the same as the 80's WC T5 behind the 5.0 HO cars, it's still pretty low overall. Lots of stories of ham fisted stick jockey's breaking T5's behind essentially stock engines way back when. I like to think I'm not a ham fisted shifter, but everyone cocks up a shift or gets a little frisky from time to time....
There's a few things you can do (like a steel input retainer) but I'm looking at replacing gearsets to up the torque rating substantially. Even then, I'll still only be looking at 300 ft/lbs or so (what the cobra T5 was rated at with hardened/high nickle gearsets)
300 Ft/lbs should be enough for my car, but driving hard out of a second gear corner is going to be putting it to the test...
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Picked up the axle today. Made a friend as well I think.
Drove down to Saulnierville and dropped into Daniel's place.
The 8.8 housing was sitting in the center of his garage waiting for me. Off to the side was a very cherry coupe. Can't remember the year, but I want to say 88-89. Low low low kms on it, something like 35,000. We talk a while, we oogle his car a while. We find out we're 3 years apart in age.
As I'm backing up the mini-van to throw the axle in, he pulls out a drive shaft and yoke for the 87 the 8.8 came out of and tosses it in the back with the axle. This is much appreciated as the drive shaft I have right now has a big balance weight on it that I want to get rid of. I grabbed it at the scrap yard witht eh intent of using it until I sourced and aluminum shaft, but it was mainly to link the rear axle to the transmission so I could lock the car in gear (since there is currently no park brake in it).
All of it: free of charge.
The axle is in great shape for a 1987 axle that's spent it's life in NS. Most of the paint is gone and it's lightly rusted, but it's not flaking rust and the housing is completely usable. There's a reason for it though. The 87 was a project car that never came to be. He told me the story of it was a freinds that they were tearing down. The friend went diving one day and never came back. He passed the car on to another friend and they proceeded to tear it apart down to the chassis. Then that friend fell asleep at the wheel one night and went under a semi. Then the car just fell by the wayside and was eventually scrapped. The axle and a few parts just hung around. I called my wife on the way home and she joked about everyone who had possessed that axle had come to ill end and to drive careful. I had a chuckle and gave a littel glance at the axle sitting on the floor int he back and clicked a couple KMs off the cruise control. LOL!
Only thing is the housing is missing the carrier bearing caps. They're matched to the axle so that's a little bit of a problem. I've got a couple loose ones and I'll install them and check them for the proper dimension of 3.0625". This is to get proper "crush" on the bearing races. Worse comes to worse I'll just order some aftermarket caps and fit them to the axle myself. Aftermarket ones are stronger and come with a little longer 'legs" so you can machine them down to the proper dimensions. Luckily, my lathe has a milling attachment and will handle that small task easily if it comes to that.
Good day. Met a nice guy, made a great score.
I've just pressure washed the axle and it's sitting in the garage waiting for paint tomorrow.
After that, an install kit and the 5 lug 31 spine fox axles and she's good to go.
Looks like I should be out the door around 400-500 bucks for a fox 8.8, trac-lok, 3.73, 31 spline rear axle assembly.
Drove down to Saulnierville and dropped into Daniel's place.
The 8.8 housing was sitting in the center of his garage waiting for me. Off to the side was a very cherry coupe. Can't remember the year, but I want to say 88-89. Low low low kms on it, something like 35,000. We talk a while, we oogle his car a while. We find out we're 3 years apart in age.
As I'm backing up the mini-van to throw the axle in, he pulls out a drive shaft and yoke for the 87 the 8.8 came out of and tosses it in the back with the axle. This is much appreciated as the drive shaft I have right now has a big balance weight on it that I want to get rid of. I grabbed it at the scrap yard witht eh intent of using it until I sourced and aluminum shaft, but it was mainly to link the rear axle to the transmission so I could lock the car in gear (since there is currently no park brake in it).
All of it: free of charge.
The axle is in great shape for a 1987 axle that's spent it's life in NS. Most of the paint is gone and it's lightly rusted, but it's not flaking rust and the housing is completely usable. There's a reason for it though. The 87 was a project car that never came to be. He told me the story of it was a freinds that they were tearing down. The friend went diving one day and never came back. He passed the car on to another friend and they proceeded to tear it apart down to the chassis. Then that friend fell asleep at the wheel one night and went under a semi. Then the car just fell by the wayside and was eventually scrapped. The axle and a few parts just hung around. I called my wife on the way home and she joked about everyone who had possessed that axle had come to ill end and to drive careful. I had a chuckle and gave a littel glance at the axle sitting on the floor int he back and clicked a couple KMs off the cruise control. LOL!
Only thing is the housing is missing the carrier bearing caps. They're matched to the axle so that's a little bit of a problem. I've got a couple loose ones and I'll install them and check them for the proper dimension of 3.0625". This is to get proper "crush" on the bearing races. Worse comes to worse I'll just order some aftermarket caps and fit them to the axle myself. Aftermarket ones are stronger and come with a little longer 'legs" so you can machine them down to the proper dimensions. Luckily, my lathe has a milling attachment and will handle that small task easily if it comes to that.
Good day. Met a nice guy, made a great score.
I've just pressure washed the axle and it's sitting in the garage waiting for paint tomorrow.
After that, an install kit and the 5 lug 31 spine fox axles and she's good to go.
Looks like I should be out the door around 400-500 bucks for a fox 8.8, trac-lok, 3.73, 31 spline rear axle assembly.
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TrueBlue02058
Post King
You're making great progress. I can't wait to see the finished product in the Sp[ring of 2018 or earlier ? :FordSmile
great white
Grumpy Old Fart
TrueBlue02058;n9499 said:
So, you're an optimist?
LOL!
I doubt it will be painted by then, but I may have it out at some auto-slalom events in "ugly mode".
I'd prefer to trailer it, but that will hinge on where or not we sell off our 35 foot travel trailer. I'm going to say it probably won't happen (buying a car trailer) as I don't think we can sell the camper for what we owe on it.
I'd like to buy a big covered trailer for a few reasons, but mostly so the next time we move I can haul the car, bikes and my machine shop stuff myself rather than stuffing it all in some monkey's moving truck. I always end up with broken or damaged stuff....
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
So I ran up to Kenny u pul today and scored some parts.
Grabbed an sn95 steering rack. This will replace the fox rack since the fox rack uses straight gears and the sn95 uses helical gears. Helical makes for a more precise steering feel. Being able to use the sn95 tie rod ends will also fix the length issues when using a fox rack with sn95 spindles. I'll have to relock the sn95 rack sector shaft, but no big deal.
I grabbed an 8.8 open diff carrier out of a grand Marquis.i tromped around looking for a trac-lock, but none were to be foun in 28 spline. I grabbed it because it will let me at least throw together the 8.8 so I can rip out the 7.5 and toss it on the scrap pile. Then I can take my time and buy the 31 spline axles for the 31 spline diff when I have the money to spare. I'll swap the 3.73 gears from the track lok 31 spline to the open 28 spline. Tossed the diff bearing caps and all the assorted bolts into my bad too.
Lastly, I grabbed the diff cover off the Marquis. It's a factory aluminum cover and the steel one on my 8.8 is a crunchy, rusty mess. This will do until I get around to buying an Al cover with integrated girdle.
All this for 110 bucks, taxes in.
Not too shabby!
Grabbed an sn95 steering rack. This will replace the fox rack since the fox rack uses straight gears and the sn95 uses helical gears. Helical makes for a more precise steering feel. Being able to use the sn95 tie rod ends will also fix the length issues when using a fox rack with sn95 spindles. I'll have to relock the sn95 rack sector shaft, but no big deal.
I grabbed an 8.8 open diff carrier out of a grand Marquis.i tromped around looking for a trac-lock, but none were to be foun in 28 spline. I grabbed it because it will let me at least throw together the 8.8 so I can rip out the 7.5 and toss it on the scrap pile. Then I can take my time and buy the 31 spline axles for the 31 spline diff when I have the money to spare. I'll swap the 3.73 gears from the track lok 31 spline to the open 28 spline. Tossed the diff bearing caps and all the assorted bolts into my bad too.
Lastly, I grabbed the diff cover off the Marquis. It's a factory aluminum cover and the steel one on my 8.8 is a crunchy, rusty mess. This will do until I get around to buying an Al cover with integrated girdle.
All this for 110 bucks, taxes in.
Not too shabby!
great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Forgot to mention the sn95 I grabbed the steering rack from also had a PS cooler (factory) in the lines. So I grabbed that too.
it's really just a long steel tube "loop" in the return line and mounted along the bottom of the rad support panel, but every bit is going to help when flogging it in back and forth dodging cones in autocross style events.
it's really just a long steel tube "loop" in the return line and mounted along the bottom of the rad support panel, but every bit is going to help when flogging it in back and forth dodging cones in autocross style events.
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Good day again today.
Picked up the steel for the subframe connectors at "metals r us" in burnside. 35 bucks out the door.
Then back over to kennys u pull in lantz. Grabbed two sn95 front lower control arms, a cruise control module and a washer bottle with pump. 69 bucks out the door. Considering Browns salvage at home wanted 40 bucks a piece for the control arms, 69 bucks is pretty damned good!
Now I'm all set up to work this winter and at least get it to where it will move and stop under its own power.
I dont think im going to get to the torque arm and panhard bar done this year. Priced out the steel for the torque arm and it was onoy 70 bucks, but i just dont think im going to have the time to fabricate it. Ditto on the panhard. Theres an outside chance i may do the panhard bar and run it like a "poor mans 3 link" where you remove one rear axle upper control arm and that eliminates most of the binding in the quadra link rear end. The torque arm is the prefered solution as it adds traction during acceleration/braking and eliminates rear suspension bind by allowing removal of both upper arms. Funds isnt the issue, its time available...
Someone else around here must also be doing a similar thing as me with sn95 parts. The two 1994's that were in the yard were stripped of spindles, rear axle shafts, rear brakes and the transmission tunnels were cut out right where the sn95 ebrake cable bracket is welded on. Exactly the same parts ive been rounding up.
There was one other 94 in the yard that could donate spindles and whatnot if someone wanted it but it was veeery crusty and you would have to do some serious work on those parts to make them presentable enough for use. I passed on them. To far gone for me....
Picked up the steel for the subframe connectors at "metals r us" in burnside. 35 bucks out the door.
Then back over to kennys u pull in lantz. Grabbed two sn95 front lower control arms, a cruise control module and a washer bottle with pump. 69 bucks out the door. Considering Browns salvage at home wanted 40 bucks a piece for the control arms, 69 bucks is pretty damned good!
Now I'm all set up to work this winter and at least get it to where it will move and stop under its own power.
I dont think im going to get to the torque arm and panhard bar done this year. Priced out the steel for the torque arm and it was onoy 70 bucks, but i just dont think im going to have the time to fabricate it. Ditto on the panhard. Theres an outside chance i may do the panhard bar and run it like a "poor mans 3 link" where you remove one rear axle upper control arm and that eliminates most of the binding in the quadra link rear end. The torque arm is the prefered solution as it adds traction during acceleration/braking and eliminates rear suspension bind by allowing removal of both upper arms. Funds isnt the issue, its time available...
Someone else around here must also be doing a similar thing as me with sn95 parts. The two 1994's that were in the yard were stripped of spindles, rear axle shafts, rear brakes and the transmission tunnels were cut out right where the sn95 ebrake cable bracket is welded on. Exactly the same parts ive been rounding up.
There was one other 94 in the yard that could donate spindles and whatnot if someone wanted it but it was veeery crusty and you would have to do some serious work on those parts to make them presentable enough for use. I passed on them. To far gone for me....
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
When I get something more than a pile of parts, there'll be pics.
Love to see the progress on this.
One thing I keep coming back to is your custom bumper. Do you have any more info on the process you used to joined them together? I've been having thoughts of an 85-86 GT lower bumper and Marchal foglights grafted to my 87 upper nose...
One thing I keep coming back to is your custom bumper. Do you have any more info on the process you used to joined them together? I've been having thoughts of an 85-86 GT lower bumper and Marchal foglights grafted to my 87 upper nose...
great white
Grumpy Old Fart
There it is:
Painted, 3.73 open diff, aluminum cover. Tight quarters to work, but its coming along nicely.
I didnt bother with setting the pinon or backlash since the open carrier isn't permanent. Its only there to allow me to install the axle under the car and move the car on and off a trailer if needed. Theres not even silicone sealing the cover or oil in it. When i get around to buying the 31 spline axles for the trac lok 31 spline carrier i'll take the time to set the gears up properly and replace the bearings and seals at that time. But to be honest, it must pretty darned close to good as it is. The gear pattern in the residual oil looked pretty much spot on when I was rotating the diff.
I spent the most of my time "making" the bearing caps. Since the housing came without them and they're supposed to be matched to the housing, I rooted through an bunch of caps until i found two that were larger than 3.0625" installed. Once i had two, I measured them up, put them on the mill and shaved them down until i got my 3.0625 spec.
Tomorrow the 7.5 comes out and the 8.8 goes in. The shafts, brakes, etc will transfer right over to the 8.8
I coukdnt resist hitting the Al cover with some autosol and the power ball to "tart it up" a bit....
Painted, 3.73 open diff, aluminum cover. Tight quarters to work, but its coming along nicely.
I didnt bother with setting the pinon or backlash since the open carrier isn't permanent. Its only there to allow me to install the axle under the car and move the car on and off a trailer if needed. Theres not even silicone sealing the cover or oil in it. When i get around to buying the 31 spline axles for the trac lok 31 spline carrier i'll take the time to set the gears up properly and replace the bearings and seals at that time. But to be honest, it must pretty darned close to good as it is. The gear pattern in the residual oil looked pretty much spot on when I was rotating the diff.
I spent the most of my time "making" the bearing caps. Since the housing came without them and they're supposed to be matched to the housing, I rooted through an bunch of caps until i found two that were larger than 3.0625" installed. Once i had two, I measured them up, put them on the mill and shaved them down until i got my 3.0625 spec.
Tomorrow the 7.5 comes out and the 8.8 goes in. The shafts, brakes, etc will transfer right over to the 8.8
I coukdnt resist hitting the Al cover with some autosol and the power ball to "tart it up" a bit....
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great white
Grumpy Old Fart
Been thinking about it and tomorrow morning I'm going to grab the grinder and chop off those quad shock brackets.
I left them on there to "hedge my bets" that they would be useful for something, but once I go torque arm they're just dead weight and I have no intentions of installing quad shocks before I install the torque arm either.
I left them on there to "hedge my bets" that they would be useful for something, but once I go torque arm they're just dead weight and I have no intentions of installing quad shocks before I install the torque arm either.
great white
Grumpy Old Fart
92LX302;n9615 said:Love to see the progress on this.
One thing I keep coming back to is your custom bumper. Do you have any more info on the process you used to joined them together? I've been having thoughts of an 85-86 GT lower bumper and Marchal foglights grafted to my 87 upper nose...
i cut the two fascias and lined them up where I wanted them. Trimmed as needed to get a good fit.
I sanded the paint off with a rough grit to give it some "tooth" on the front and back of each piece.
Then used the polyurethane adhesion promoter on both pieces IAW the directions.
Put the two pieces back together and lined them up again. Drilled and installed pop rivets to hold them together and tight.
The turn signal openings I cut to shape and then held in with metal tape.
Removed it all from the car and used the urethane adhesive (2 part mix) on the rear. It flowed in and around the splice to bond it. The foil tape kept it from leaking out around the turn signal opening "splices".
Once dried, I turned it over and drilled out the pop rivets. Then I used foil tap to make a "damn" across the front to get the basic shape I wanted where the two different rub strip contours meet.
Then mixed more polyurethane and filled the "damn" up to where I needed it to cover the pop rivet holes and create the profile I needed. The polyurethane will flow through the empty pop rivet holes and make "keys" that will help "mechanically" hold it together. I had to do it in two separate rounds to get the front where I needed it for both adhesion and build up.
Once cured, It's just regular body work procedures for sanding and shaping.
Flexible filler will finish it off when I get around to the finishing work.
Then it's normal painting prep and procedures.
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