Yeah I know. I value all input. The air needs to get out.
Tire suggestions/Mod discussions
- Thread starter 2001BlackGTvert
- Start date
Yes I agree if you can buy the parts that work together the first time it will avoid having to buy the right parts the second time around. Lol
Mineral Grey
Well-known member
Would be nice if we could all just drop our cars off along with $15-25k to DaSilva or Brenspeed and pick up a couple weeks later and it's all done ..? as good as this sounds i like to do most if the work myself and learn along the way, I've done most of my mods so far .. But if I had the extra $ it would be nice to just drop off and pick up my new and improved high power track car ..but wheres the fun and bragging rights in that
Yeah it would definitely be nice. But I agree you would get any knowledge out of it. I enjoy doing what I can.
I am same, I can't do it all, but with help can get most done and take it where
you have to get other things done.
With my car, not much to do, one of the reasons I wanted another one.
Upside to build, is I have something to drive while doing.
In the past I had a garage to do mods over winter so no down time.
Fortunate, those who don't have to do quick in spring or pay.
Missing driving time is not an option.
Season is short enough.
you have to get other things done.
With my car, not much to do, one of the reasons I wanted another one.
Upside to build, is I have something to drive while doing.
In the past I had a garage to do mods over winter so no down time.
Fortunate, those who don't have to do quick in spring or pay.
Missing driving time is not an option.
Season is short enough.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
Good discussions.
I’ve added 160 N/A hp on my 06.
I agree with all Trevor has said, except for couple minor things that can be sorted out at time of tuning.
If staying N/A, fuel pump, injectors and plugs not a priority during the build. Chances are stock items are good enough.
They are priority for F/I setup but N/A does mot add the same level of demand on fuel supply as F/I. Initial cost savings here.
For 100 hp or so gain N/A the pump will be good.
Plugs or injectors can be added while on Dyno.
I still run stock plugs(new) and pump. Tuner recommendation. No need for more.
We only changed injectors because stocks were faulty and giving mis-fire. Used 5 year old car at the time.
Tuner happened to have a set of used Ford Racing on hand so threw those on to eliminate mis-fire. Otherwise would have been good with stock ones too.
I’ve added 160 N/A hp on my 06.
I agree with all Trevor has said, except for couple minor things that can be sorted out at time of tuning.
If staying N/A, fuel pump, injectors and plugs not a priority during the build. Chances are stock items are good enough.
They are priority for F/I setup but N/A does mot add the same level of demand on fuel supply as F/I. Initial cost savings here.
For 100 hp or so gain N/A the pump will be good.
Plugs or injectors can be added while on Dyno.
I still run stock plugs(new) and pump. Tuner recommendation. No need for more.
We only changed injectors because stocks were faulty and giving mis-fire. Used 5 year old car at the time.
Tuner happened to have a set of used Ford Racing on hand so threw those on to eliminate mis-fire. Otherwise would have been good with stock ones too.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
What Gerry said above about air in and air out is 100% bang on. Especially with N/A setup
Engine is like big air pump or vacuum.
It sucks air in one end and pushes it out the other.
So you can look at it like plumbing.
Your smallest point of circulation will be the restriction point that sets the limit for hp production.
Example, you can have huge openings on intake side but if small, restrictive openings on exhaust side, your hp production will be limited to what your exhaust side can you.
The big mean looking stuff up front will only be for show.
It sounds like you don’t want to go there Charlie but you will have to.
If you do only cams, never mind heads, you should plan long tubes at the same time or very shortly after.
Long tubes pretty near double the efficiency of your cams in an N/A setup.
Shorties do barely anything. Tuner confirmed this.
My setup is 3 valve mind you but, through slow build like discussed here, I was able to test and see difference on my 05.
The red car from the calendar.
First time I did hot rod cams with stock manifold I gained 19 wheel hp.
Following year I gained another 22 wheel hp by just doing long tubes and high flow cats.
That is more than double what cams did alone.
Engine is like big air pump or vacuum.
It sucks air in one end and pushes it out the other.
So you can look at it like plumbing.
Your smallest point of circulation will be the restriction point that sets the limit for hp production.
Example, you can have huge openings on intake side but if small, restrictive openings on exhaust side, your hp production will be limited to what your exhaust side can you.
The big mean looking stuff up front will only be for show.
It sounds like you don’t want to go there Charlie but you will have to.
If you do only cams, never mind heads, you should plan long tubes at the same time or very shortly after.
Long tubes pretty near double the efficiency of your cams in an N/A setup.
Shorties do barely anything. Tuner confirmed this.
My setup is 3 valve mind you but, through slow build like discussed here, I was able to test and see difference on my 05.
The red car from the calendar.
First time I did hot rod cams with stock manifold I gained 19 wheel hp.
Following year I gained another 22 wheel hp by just doing long tubes and high flow cats.
That is more than double what cams did alone.
I agree with Marc and Gerry
Almost anything can be put in the car.
but gains don't truly come until you tie it all together.
Order matters a little, but in the end, building it like a package and
a really good tune will give you nice gains.
Biggest plus is, you can do this in 2,3,4 years as budget allows.
gain a little as you go, for money spent, when done and do proper tune
you get the final HP and very important, drivability.
Also some like the whine of SC
but normally aspirated is very cool HP
Look at my car or Marks and you get what I mean.
Almost anything can be put in the car.
but gains don't truly come until you tie it all together.
Order matters a little, but in the end, building it like a package and
a really good tune will give you nice gains.
Biggest plus is, you can do this in 2,3,4 years as budget allows.
gain a little as you go, for money spent, when done and do proper tune
you get the final HP and very important, drivability.
Also some like the whine of SC
but normally aspirated is very cool HP
Look at my car or Marks and you get what I mean.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
What an open N/A setup will do though is move both your power and torque bans further up your rpm range.
So N/A power is high rpm power.
It’s fun but its different.
It will mean adjusting or changing the way you drive to get that power.
One big item you already have to accommodate N/A power is your 4.10 gears.
As Trevor said, they dont make more power.
Actually, on a Dyno, they lower the peak power result very slightly. We’re talking a half or one hp.
But they allow your engine to spool up faster to a higher rpm where you are making more power. The tradeoff is less range on your gas tank.
The biggest influencer of how high up your rpm range your power and torque get moved up, especially noticeable on your low end torque is the intake manifold that goes on the engine.
A long runner intake, like the stock unit is better for low end torque. For starting grom a dead stop. For negotiating traffic and lights, etc.
A short runner intake, like most aftermarket intakes, is better for high end power but at the cost of losing low end torque.
To maintain street drivability and have good power, I would suggest the following:
Quality High flow CAI
Cams (You can plan cams that will transfer to ported heads later)
Long tubes with high flow cats
If this means new exhaust, so be it. You need the flow of the LTs to make cams worth it.
Paired with your 4.10s and a good tune, this will really wake up your car.
The CAI, cams and LTs require tuning.
If you do them at same time, you save trip(s) to the tuner.
You keep your stock intake manifold for the above. Gives you good drivability.
In case your curious, a throttle body could be considered but not necessary if you are watching budget.
It should only be good for around 2 to 3 extra hp as tested with C&L CAI on 3 valve setup.
More eye candy than go here.
So N/A power is high rpm power.
It’s fun but its different.
It will mean adjusting or changing the way you drive to get that power.
One big item you already have to accommodate N/A power is your 4.10 gears.
As Trevor said, they dont make more power.
Actually, on a Dyno, they lower the peak power result very slightly. We’re talking a half or one hp.
But they allow your engine to spool up faster to a higher rpm where you are making more power. The tradeoff is less range on your gas tank.
The biggest influencer of how high up your rpm range your power and torque get moved up, especially noticeable on your low end torque is the intake manifold that goes on the engine.
A long runner intake, like the stock unit is better for low end torque. For starting grom a dead stop. For negotiating traffic and lights, etc.
A short runner intake, like most aftermarket intakes, is better for high end power but at the cost of losing low end torque.
To maintain street drivability and have good power, I would suggest the following:
Quality High flow CAI
Cams (You can plan cams that will transfer to ported heads later)
Long tubes with high flow cats
If this means new exhaust, so be it. You need the flow of the LTs to make cams worth it.
Paired with your 4.10s and a good tune, this will really wake up your car.
The CAI, cams and LTs require tuning.
If you do them at same time, you save trip(s) to the tuner.
You keep your stock intake manifold for the above. Gives you good drivability.
In case your curious, a throttle body could be considered but not necessary if you are watching budget.
It should only be good for around 2 to 3 extra hp as tested with C&L CAI on 3 valve setup.
More eye candy than go here.
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If I am doing serious cams, I am doing heads to go with,
but thats me and it does add more HP.
Marc makes a good point on power bands,
wanna go fast light to light,
or do some corner carving on side trips to Mexico.
all these things, can determine build.
I know a few talk gas milage, I struggle with this.
If you are truly concerned about gas milage, a
V-8 Mustang is not the way to go.
Turbo 4 bangers lol.
but thats me and it does add more HP.
Marc makes a good point on power bands,
wanna go fast light to light,
or do some corner carving on side trips to Mexico.
all these things, can determine build.
I know a few talk gas milage, I struggle with this.
If you are truly concerned about gas milage, a
V-8 Mustang is not the way to go.
Turbo 4 bangers lol.
I built mine out over the past 4 years, with suspension being the last. Some show bits added along the way. Have the paperwork including labor costs for the work since starting to mod my '13. I've shot past 50% of vehicle purchase price and haven't felt I was going any faster than my original plan.
For a car that will never see a track and no strip in PEI any longer, I don't really have much cause for more performance that what I have gained over stock. For a convertible, I feel taking my build to anything more extreme is a lost investment at this time. If a trip to Mexico comes along, I won't get lost from the pack, nor do I need to be in the lead.
Probably, the biggest disappointment so far is the COVID restrictions keeping us from the dyno run and a few meets.
For a car that will never see a track and no strip in PEI any longer, I don't really have much cause for more performance that what I have gained over stock. For a convertible, I feel taking my build to anything more extreme is a lost investment at this time. If a trip to Mexico comes along, I won't get lost from the pack, nor do I need to be in the lead.
Probably, the biggest disappointment so far is the COVID restrictions keeping us from the dyno run and a few meets.
I wanted to like and cry on this post all at the same time.
Again right, knowing where you want to be, before you
get there helps a lot.
Reminder of not going on dyno run, makes me cry
one of my favourite drives of the year.
Fun weekend, with lots of driving and car talk.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
Next level would be:
Ported heads
Cams for ported heads
Short runner aftermarket intake manifold
Throttle body
Now the consideration here will be high end hp. Less torque down low.
So much that your tuner will suggest or discuss with you the possibility of bumping up your redline a bit to get full advantage of that
high end power.
This will require the following considerations (investments).
A larger capacity oil pan and higher flow oil pump to prevent your valve train from starving for oil.
The money you saved earlier on fuel pump, injectors and plugs can now go here if you chose to go this dar.
This is the step that will dramatically change the way your car drives.
With the loss of low end torque as the most noticeable feature.
Mostly the result of the new intake manifold.
If you are doing ported heads, you might as well go all the way.
Heads will get you around 25 hp over what you had before.
But doing the intake and bump in rpm will get you more like double that amount to the 45-55 hp range, maybe a bit more.
The issue is that the heads alone will be a considerable expense.
So do you spend the money for 25 hp (if you retain stock intake) or spend it for 50? (with intake and bump in rpm)
Ported heads
Cams for ported heads
Short runner aftermarket intake manifold
Throttle body
Now the consideration here will be high end hp. Less torque down low.
So much that your tuner will suggest or discuss with you the possibility of bumping up your redline a bit to get full advantage of that
high end power.
This will require the following considerations (investments).
A larger capacity oil pan and higher flow oil pump to prevent your valve train from starving for oil.
The money you saved earlier on fuel pump, injectors and plugs can now go here if you chose to go this dar.
This is the step that will dramatically change the way your car drives.
With the loss of low end torque as the most noticeable feature.
Mostly the result of the new intake manifold.
If you are doing ported heads, you might as well go all the way.
Heads will get you around 25 hp over what you had before.
But doing the intake and bump in rpm will get you more like double that amount to the 45-55 hp range, maybe a bit more.
The issue is that the heads alone will be a considerable expense.
So do you spend the money for 25 hp (if you retain stock intake) or spend it for 50? (with intake and bump in rpm)
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
I will finish with an issue I saw earlier when you mentioned you bought the car with a K&N CAI and the shorty headers.
Sort of a red flag, if I may use that term.
Really consider changing out the K&N for a newer more flowing CAI and a new tune.
Preferably a custom tune.
This alone will wake up your car noticeably.
I don’t want to bash any manufacturer but the K&N is simply not up to the level you are aspiring to reach.
Or the level you could have now.
I am not well versed in the 2 valve version of the 4.6 nor the New Edge Mustang so I won’t suggest which CAI to go with.
This is where research, as Trevor recommended, should be done.
What I can say is that if your application was a 3 valve 4.6, I would recommend without hesitation the latest version of the JLT CAI.
I can say that on my application, pre ported heads and short runner intake manifold, I saw 19 wheel hp gains going from C&L street to JLT series 3.
This would be a setup like the first one I suggested above.
Disclosure: I also did the charge motion delete plates at the same time so I can’t say the CAI takes all the credit.
What I did reason in reading an article in MM&FF’s at the time was that, since I already had an aftermarket larger throttle body, the C&L CAI was the point of smallest diameter in my whole “plumbing setup” so it was my point of restriction.
Exchanging the C&L for the higher flowing JLT now allowed the throttle body to also maximize its capability.
For your current setup, the shorty headers are adequate, but you will definitely have to go to long tubes if you want to do cams and maximize their output.
You asked about Crane cams.
I don’t know about them.
My tuner recommended Comp cams and that is what I have.
I have not regrets.
Positive thoughts going your way for all this.
Sort of a red flag, if I may use that term.
Really consider changing out the K&N for a newer more flowing CAI and a new tune.
Preferably a custom tune.
This alone will wake up your car noticeably.
I don’t want to bash any manufacturer but the K&N is simply not up to the level you are aspiring to reach.
Or the level you could have now.
I am not well versed in the 2 valve version of the 4.6 nor the New Edge Mustang so I won’t suggest which CAI to go with.
This is where research, as Trevor recommended, should be done.
What I can say is that if your application was a 3 valve 4.6, I would recommend without hesitation the latest version of the JLT CAI.
I can say that on my application, pre ported heads and short runner intake manifold, I saw 19 wheel hp gains going from C&L street to JLT series 3.
This would be a setup like the first one I suggested above.
Disclosure: I also did the charge motion delete plates at the same time so I can’t say the CAI takes all the credit.
What I did reason in reading an article in MM&FF’s at the time was that, since I already had an aftermarket larger throttle body, the C&L CAI was the point of smallest diameter in my whole “plumbing setup” so it was my point of restriction.
Exchanging the C&L for the higher flowing JLT now allowed the throttle body to also maximize its capability.
For your current setup, the shorty headers are adequate, but you will definitely have to go to long tubes if you want to do cams and maximize their output.
You asked about Crane cams.
I don’t know about them.
My tuner recommended Comp cams and that is what I have.
I have not regrets.
Positive thoughts going your way for all this.
This started out, figuring out away to spend your money LOL
Also to give you good HP gains, with budget plan.
I am not sure on 4.6 2 valve, but 4.6 3value has
RWHP at max 450 without destroying block.
I suspect, likely close to same with yours.
How much money and much HP always helps dictate build.
If 80 to 100 is enough, ( for now) then
5-7 k, 3-4 years and your good to go.
As Marc said, air and tune are key.
Driving will change a little and giddy-up
Except for exhaust sound, bit of a sleeper
when you are pushing 400+hp
This is fun research and as you see, no lack of help, spending your money.
Also to give you good HP gains, with budget plan.
I am not sure on 4.6 2 valve, but 4.6 3value has
RWHP at max 450 without destroying block.
I suspect, likely close to same with yours.
How much money and much HP always helps dictate build.
If 80 to 100 is enough, ( for now) then
5-7 k, 3-4 years and your good to go.
As Marc said, air and tune are key.
Driving will change a little and giddy-up
Except for exhaust sound, bit of a sleeper
when you are pushing 400+hp
This is fun research and as you see, no lack of help, spending your money.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
Another thought, on gears this time.
On a setup like the first one I mentioned, pre ported heads, big cams and short runner intake, I had 3.73 gears.
With the low end torque of the stock long runner intake, this setup was fun and easily street-able.
When I did the ported heads, big cams and short runner intake, my focus was a road course setup so we left the 3.73’s in, thinking it would be a good setup.
For drag racing or light to light runs, they would normally recommend 4.10’s with those mods.
The very first thing I noticed was the loss of low end torque.
I did go to the track and was a bit disappointed.
The car did not feel and was not any faster around the track.
It was slower clawing out of turns due to less low end torque.
Emphasis of setup is on high rpm.
Almost needed to be in one lower gear than before.
But that was almost too much difference.
Kind of stuck in between.
So I swapped in 3.90 gears.
Made a noticeable difference for the better.
So much so that now, following my own advice, I want to do 4.10’s.
I will not lose any top speed because the bump in rpm can compensate for gear difference.
My top end has been bumped from 6500 to 7500 rpm, with the addition of oil pan and oil pump discussed earlier.
The only victim is mileage.
As Trevor just said, if that is an issue, then I should not be playing with these cars.
Shelby, in his wisdom, is reputed to have said somewhere along the way that: “horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races”.
I now have a very good idea of what he meant.
On a setup like the first one I mentioned, pre ported heads, big cams and short runner intake, I had 3.73 gears.
With the low end torque of the stock long runner intake, this setup was fun and easily street-able.
When I did the ported heads, big cams and short runner intake, my focus was a road course setup so we left the 3.73’s in, thinking it would be a good setup.
For drag racing or light to light runs, they would normally recommend 4.10’s with those mods.
The very first thing I noticed was the loss of low end torque.
I did go to the track and was a bit disappointed.
The car did not feel and was not any faster around the track.
It was slower clawing out of turns due to less low end torque.
Emphasis of setup is on high rpm.
Almost needed to be in one lower gear than before.
But that was almost too much difference.
Kind of stuck in between.
So I swapped in 3.90 gears.
Made a noticeable difference for the better.
So much so that now, following my own advice, I want to do 4.10’s.
I will not lose any top speed because the bump in rpm can compensate for gear difference.
My top end has been bumped from 6500 to 7500 rpm, with the addition of oil pan and oil pump discussed earlier.
The only victim is mileage.
As Trevor just said, if that is an issue, then I should not be playing with these cars.
Shelby, in his wisdom, is reputed to have said somewhere along the way that: “horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races”.
I now have a very good idea of what he meant.
Wow thanks everyone so far. Awesome feedback. I will need to ho and re read all of the post again.
Marc, it is not that I don't want to make and exhaust change. I know I will have to at some point. Just trying to avoid it for the short term but I get the reasoning for sure.
I love my 4.10 and hopefully I can leave them on moving forward.
I thought of the cold air as well. I will do some research on the 2v.
I would love to add close to another 100hp if at all possible N/A so that is my goal. It is also over time so I am not opposed to grabbing some slightly used stuff that will work for what I want.
I appreciate all the input and love the help in spending the money. Lol
Marc, it is not that I don't want to make and exhaust change. I know I will have to at some point. Just trying to avoid it for the short term but I get the reasoning for sure.
I love my 4.10 and hopefully I can leave them on moving forward.
I thought of the cold air as well. I will do some research on the 2v.
I would love to add close to another 100hp if at all possible N/A so that is my goal. It is also over time so I am not opposed to grabbing some slightly used stuff that will work for what I want.
I appreciate all the input and love the help in spending the money. Lol
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
There is actually no harm in keeping your exhaust for now as exhaust ie one of the few mods that can be done at any time and independently if anything else.
So a first step, if we go back to the threads, could be cams, a quality high flow CAI and custom tune.
The LT’s will still do their thing if added later.
Just be aware that they will require a tune as well, so money saved up front may be diminished by need to get another tune.
So a first step, if we go back to the threads, could be cams, a quality high flow CAI and custom tune.
The LT’s will still do their thing if added later.
Just be aware that they will require a tune as well, so money saved up front may be diminished by need to get another tune.
Mineral Grey
Well-known member
This Friday would have been the start of the dyno weekend.. i will miss it for sure, the drive down, the time with like minded people and of course the tuning at Pete's. I was planning on doing long tubes and cams this spring for Pete to dial in for me , but the lay off and lack of $ i didn't even get to order them yet, however I did spent just over $1500 on suspension in the last few weeks and hope to get the camber plates tomorrow and get the car out of the garage finally.