Picked up a 2010 Hardtop GT

[SVT4MT]

Back in the day I threw a set of ceramic coated Kooks long tube headers on my '06, along with an X pipe and FRPP (Borla Stinger) mufflers.

Beautiful looking headers and well built, but expensive and I thought they sounded like shit.

I hated that exhaust note.....worse at some rpm than others, idle wasn't bad, but higher up it sounded terrible in my opinion.

It's all very subjective, and what sounds terrible to me might sound great to others.

Homework time for sure.

 

[67 AGAIN]

KBStang said:
I’ve got a cat back exhaust, front splitter, hood struts, stripes, and a bunch of other little things coming.

As said, these cars don’t have a resonator like the new cars, so the piping between Cats and mufflers is good quality stainless steel where pipe for pipe, there is minimal to no gains possible with cat back exhaust.
By deduction the most important place for improvement is the mufflers.
Wether getting cat back or axle back(meaning mufflers only), the main characteristic to look for in order to put in place building blocks for future power improvements such as long tubes, cams or FI, is to source mufflers that flow better than the OE mufflers.
Otherwise you are just changing sound but not much else.
The biggest restriction in the exhaust system from the factory is all before the mufflers.
It’s in the factory manifolds and the cats, which are incorporated in the factory H mid pipe.
Should you decide to go with long tubes later, the long tubes will come with their own mid pipe where you can research and source, depending on manufacturer, an X or H pipe with high flow cats.
Not all manufacturers offer both. Most offer one or the other.

This can open 2 new debates which we can revisit later if need be.
Quick overview of these debates:

1- Are X pipes better than H pipes?
Not really, or not enough to agonize over the decision.
Source: lots of reading and research, including reading Scott Hoag, retired Ford lead engineer on 2001 Bullitt project and contributor to 2008 Bullitt project, and founder/owner of MRT performance.
Plus opinion of Matt Dasilva who does hundreds of dyno tunes a year on Mustangs.
Consensus varies from no difference to, if there is a difference it’s very minimal. Something like maybe a couple hp on a 500 hp car.
The overwhelming consensus is that choice between X or H pipes should be made over preference of sound between the two.
X pipes are known to make slightly higher pitch, slightly more frenetic sound. The GT350’s have X pipes.
H pipes are known to make a slightly deeper, more baritone or lopy sound. Your car and the first generation 5.0’s have H pipes.

2- Are off road mid pipes better than high flow catted mid pipes?
Not much and not worth agonizing over the decision.
High flow catted pipes should be the choice.
They keep your car legal for provincial inspections in the Maritimes and pass Air care in Ontario.
Off road mid pipes have no cats so your car will also stink along with being illegal.
And again based on several dyno pulls, extra gains, if any, are minimal, like maybe 1%, or 5 hp on a 500 hp car.
Unless building a race car and chasing tenths or hundredths of a second on the quarter mile, which I don’t think any reader here is, then why risk driving an illegal car?

Personal observation, I have BBK high flow catted X pipe on my car, and if they were not efficient I don’t think I would have reached my goal of 100 hp per Litre of displacement, naturally aspirated, which I did.

 

[KBStang]

KBStang said:
I’ve got a cat back exhaust, front splitter, hood struts, stripes, and a bunch of other little things coming.

As said, these cars don’t have a resonator like the new cars, so the piping between Cats and mufflers is good quality stainless steel where pipe for pipe, there is minimal to no gains possible with cat back exhaust.
By deduction the most important place for improvement is the mufflers.
Wether getting cat back or axle back(meaning mufflers only), the main characteristic to look for in order to put in place building blocks for future power improvements such as long tubes, cams or FI, is to source mufflers that flow better than the OE mufflers.
Otherwise you are just changing sound but not much else.
The biggest restriction in the exhaust system from the factory is all before the mufflers.
It’s in the factory manifolds and the cats, which are incorporated in the factory H mid pipe.
Should you decide to go with long tubes later, the long tubes will come with their own mid pipe where you can research and source, depending on manufacturer, an X or H pipe with high flow cats.
Not all manufacturers offer both. Most offer one or the other.

This can open 2 new debates which we can revisit later if need be.
Quick overview of these debates:

1- Are X pipes better than H pipes?
Not really, or not enough to agonize over the decision.
Source: lots of reading and research, including reading Scott Hoag, retired Ford lead engineer on 2001 Bullitt project and contributor to 2008 Bullitt project, and founder/owner of MRT performance.
Plus opinion of Matt Dasilva who does hundreds of dyno tunes a year on Mustangs.
Consensus varies from no difference to, if there is a difference it’s very minimal. Something like maybe a couple hp on a 500 hp car.
The overwhelming consensus is that choice between X or H pipes should be made over preference of sound between the two.
X pipes are known to make slightly higher pitch, slightly more frenetic sound. The GT350’s have X pipes.
H pipes are known to make a slightly deeper, more baritone or lopy sound. Your car and the first generation 5.0’s have H pipes.

2- Are off road mid pipes better than high flow catted mid pipes?
Not much and not worth agonizing over the decision.
High flow catted pipes should be the choice.
They keep your car legal for provincial inspections in the Maritimes and pass Air care in Ontario.
Off road mid pipes have no cats so your car will also stink along with being illegal.
And again based on several dyno pulls, extra gains, if any, are minimal, like maybe 1%, or 5 hp on a 500 hp car.
Unless building a race car and chasing tenths or hundredths of a second on the quarter mile, which I don’t think any reader here is, then why risk driving an illegal car?

Personal observation, I have BBK high flow catted X pipe on my car, and if they were not efficient I don’t think I would have reached my goal of 100 hp per Litre of displacement, naturally aspirated, which I did.

Great information as I weigh smiles per mile, and value for dollar, in looking at appearance, sound, handling, power and power band, as well as maintenance and reliability.

 

[67 AGAIN]

Ohtobbad said:
tune and air intake for sure.

Suggestion: strongly consider doing under drive pulleys at same time.
Pulleys can be done anytime independently and require no tune.
But done at same time as your CAI and tune, will liven everything up that much more.
Pulleys don’t exist anymore for the 5.0 but in the days of the 4.6, Ford was leaving a lot of performance on the table.
This is why the 4.6 is easy to modify and responds well to some mods.
The pulleys replace the crank and water pump pulleys to change the speed and parasitic resistance of your accessory drive belt, thus freeing up some power that can be sent to the back wheels instead of lost in the accessories
On a near stock 4.6, anywhere from 5 to 10 hp. Probably in the range of 7 to 9 easy.
Not more power, just power redistributed.

They slow down water pump about 25% and all other accessories 5% to 10%.
The car can function like that just fine.
Also, if you do rear gears, you will now run at higher rpm’s.
Having under drive pulleys just makes your accessories run closer to what they were in stock form.

 

[67 AGAIN]

Back in the day I threw a set of ceramic coated Kooks long tube headers on my '06, along with an X pipe and FRPP (Borla Stinger) mufflers.

Beautiful looking headers and well built, but expensive and I thought they sounded like shit.

I hated that exhaust note.....worse at some rpm than others, idle wasn't bad, but higher up it sounded terrible in my opinion.

It's all very subjective, and what sounds terrible to me might sound great to others.

Homework time for sure.

Very true. Sound and exhaust note are subjective and open to personal taste.

This is a good jumping off point to share my experience.
Like Kevin, I also got a cat back exhaust as one of my very first mods on my ‘05 car that preceded the ‘06.
I was completely new to the modding hobby.
But I did a bit of reading and research before pulling trigger.
I concluded more flow was a good thing for future consideration.
And, the 4.6, like the 5.0 to a slightly lesser extent today, was prone to drone at around the 2000 rpm range.
So I settled on the Magnaflow Magnapack cat back system.
They don’t make these anymore.
Closest now is probably the competition cat back system.
The first objective was achieved easily as the mufflers on this system are wide open, so lots of flow for future mods, and louder sound instantly.
The second objective of avoiding drone, not so much.
Literature said these did not exhibit much drone.
That was not true. They exhibited a good amount of drone over stock, which was no drone.
So you adapt and learn not to drive at 2000 rpm.
Rear end gears help this situation.

Then, after CAI, UD pulleys and tune, I wanted more.
I did FRPP Hot Rod cams.
Loved the sound and extra go of these.
Coincidentally, while at the shop getting this work done, I heard a car with long tubes.
I asked if those would make my car louder and if they would add power?
The answer to both was a confident yes.
So the following spring I returned for the previously mentioned BBK long tubes and high flow catted X pipe.
To be honest, I prefer the sound of H pipes but Dasilva was doing a lot of these BBK pipes at the time and they put up good numbers on the dyno, and were budget friendly.
So I went with them.

My experience with my long tubes is that I loved the sound.
Big difference with Mike is that I already had cams in the car.
The cams give a more lopy and aggressive sound.
My experience with my long tubes was and still is positive.

I liked my exhaust so much on the ‘05 that when I sold it, I unbolted and kept it all to transfer onto the ‘06.
I also added Hot Rod cams as an early mod to the ‘06 because by then I had learned that, the 4.6 3 valve motor responded well to the combination of the HR cams and long tubes.

In fact, the cams and long tube combo was good for an extra 40 hp gain above whatever the CAI, pulleys and tune had already garnered.
All of a sudden you had a car a lot closer to the 400 hp range than the stock 300 hp range.

On a % basis the 4.6 3 valve responds better to cams and long tubes than the 5.0, because the more Ford evolves the 5.0 the less power they leave on the table.
For this reason, and cost, cams are not a popular mod on the latter 5.0 generations.
Cost because it’s 4 cams instead of 2, and tuning a 5.0 with cams is significantly more intricate and time costly than the 4.6.

On the 4.6, a 20 hp gain with the HR cams at a certain price was a good investment starting from a base of 300 hp.

On the 5.0, for way more money you are now getting less hp gain and starting from a 450 hp base, the investment is not so attractive compared to percentage of gain.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard or come across a stock 4.6 3 valve with long tubes like Mike had.
Mike was a pioneer also.
All the 4.6’s I’ve heard with long tubes, and it’s not that many apart from mine, had cams or were supercharged.

 

[KBStang]

Very true. Sound and exhaust note are subjective and open to personal taste.

This is a good jumping off point to share my experience.
Like Kevin, I also got a cat back exhaust as one of my very first mods on my ‘05 car that preceded the ‘06.
I was completely new to the modding hobby.
But I did a bit of reading and research before pulling trigger.
I concluded more flow was a good thing for future consideration.
And, the 4.6, like the 5.0 to a slightly lesser extent today, was prone to drone at around the 2000 rpm range.
So I settled on the Magnaflow Magnapack cat back system.
They don’t make these anymore.
Closest now is probably the competition cat back system.
The first objective was achieved easily as the mufflers on this system are wide open, so lots of flow for future mods, and louder sound instantly.
The second objective of avoiding drone, not so much.
Literature said these did not exhibit much drone.
That was not true. They exhibited a good amount of drone over stock, which was no drone.
So you adapt and learn not to drive at 2000 rpm.
Rear end gears help this situation.

Then, after CAI, UD pulleys and tune, I wanted more.
I did FRPP Hot Rod cams.
Loved the sound and extra go of these.
Coincidentally, while at the shop getting this work done, I heard a car with long tubes.
I asked if those would make my car louder and if they would add power?
The answer to both was a confident yes.
So the following spring I returned for the previously mentioned BBK long tubes and high flow catted X pipe.
To be honest, I prefer the sound of H pipes but Dasilva was doing a lot of these BBK pipes at the time and they put up good numbers on the dyno, and were budget friendly.
So I went with them.

My experience with my long tubes is that I loved the sound.
Big difference with Mike is that I already had cams in the car.
The cams give a more lopy and aggressive sound.
My experience with my long tubes was and still is positive.

I liked my exhaust so much on the ‘05 that when I sold it, I unbolted and kept it all to transfer onto the ‘06.
I also added Hot Rod cams as an early mod to the ‘06 because by then I had learned that, the 4.6 3 valve motor responded well to the combination of the HR cams and long tubes.

In fact, the cams and long tube combo was good for an extra 40 hp gain above whatever the CAI, pulleys and tune had already garnered.
All of a sudden you had a car a lot closer to the 400 hp range than the stock 300 hp range.

On a % basis the 4.6 3 valve responds better to cams and long tubes than the 5.0, because the more Ford evolves the 5.0 the less power they leave on the table.
For this reason, and cost, cams are not a popular mod on the latter 5.0 generations.
Cost because it’s 4 cams instead of 2, and tuning a 5.0 with cams is significantly more intricate and time costly than the 4.6.

On the 4.6, a 20 hp gain with the HR cams at a certain price was a good investment starting from a base of 300 hp.

On the 5.0, for way more money you are now getting less hp gain and starting from a 450 hp base, the investment is not so attractive compared to percentage of gain.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard or come across a stock 4.6 3 valve with long tubes like Mike had.
Mike was a pioneer also.
All the 4.6’s I’ve heard with long tubes, and it’s not that many apart from mine, had cams or were supercharged.

Great information, and I appreciate that you are speaking from experience. I am not sure that there is anyone in PEI that has the level of experience and expertise in modding these cars that can be found in NB or NS. At some point I will be looking for a shop recommendation. Also, should I be looking to buy a tuner at some point once I start some mods? I see tuners advertised for a range of years of Mustangs, up to the 2023. I don’t think Ford had unlocked the tuning on the 2024 yet. When I get a tuner, I would like it to have the capability to tune the 2024 once Ford unlocks them. I hope that makes sense.

 

[67 AGAIN]

Good question.

Both Trevor and I have mentioned it already.
CAI and “Tune”.
Emphasis on tune.
So, big Yes, you will need a tuner.
I’m almost afraid this bit of information may be late for you.
I think I read that you already ordered a CAI.
But what I did not read is what I picked up on.
I did not read that you also have a tuner coming with that CAI.
If the CAI you ordered does mot require a tune you are basically wasting money because it will not give you significant gains.
It may not give you much at all except a different look when you open the hood.
So not much more than eye candy.

Except for the under drive pulleys that I described before, any power mod worth doing absolutely requires a tune.
If it does not require a tune, then it’s not increasing the air flow in and out of the engine significantly, so not much gain.
If no tune is required, it means your mass air meter and computer can cope with the difference. If they can do that then it’s not much of a difference.

Or put another way, a significant difference.
A difference worth doing will throw engine codes if you don’t have the proper tune.

SCT is the most common and widely used tuner for our cars.

If you deal with experienced and reputable sellers, they will sell you the appropriate tuner for the mod you are buying.
For your car, the best CAI is the JLT series 3 and it absolutely requires a tune.
If dealing with the big American sites like American Muscle, CJ Pony Parts or LMR, you should call and speak to someone.
They will ask a few questions to get it right.
Such question as what octane tune do you want?
It’s important here to tell them that you want a 91 octane tune because that’s all we have in the maritimes.
So a 93 tune is useless here and if downloaded into your car will damage your engine’s valve train with detonation, because of not enough octane in gasoline.

 

[Ohtobbad]

All my research when doing my 08 said that X pipe like Marc said were minimumal
but I read 2-3 HP, Ford left alot in the Tune with 4.6 cold air kit and good tune will net you 15 to 20 HP
equally important, tune will make car react and respsond so much better than stock.

I believe doing suspension on these cars is far bigger deal, they have a lot of body roll and nose dive under braking.
To get better experince of spirited driving a nice handling car improves everything. Improved brakes are always nice,
but later in the game for you. You can do this in bits, I beleive Aaron found local guy for suspension.

I have found a guy here who does alot of Mustangs and does Dyno's also, I have not done deep dive into his Dyno abilities
But that can be done remotely, save you a ton on travel. Palm Beach dyno has great reputation for this.

You have lots of reading to do and even though this can add up, spend some time trying to figure out
where you want to go with this, will save time and money if you do in a good order and end results will be better.

It can get a bit contagious

 

[KBStang]

Good question.

Both Trevor and I have mentioned it already.
CAI and “Tune”.
Emphasis on tune.
So, big Yes, you will need a tuner.
I’m almost afraid this bit of information may be late for you.
I think I read that you already ordered a CAI.
But what I did not read is what I picked up on.
I did not read that you also have a tuner coming with that CAI.
If the CAI you ordered does mot require a tune you are basically wasting money because it will not give you significant gains.
It may not give you much at all except a different look when you open the hood.
So not much more than eye candy.

Except for the under drive pulleys that I described before, any power mod worth doing absolutely requires a tune.
If it does not require a tune, then it’s not increasing the air flow in and out of the engine significantly, so not much gain.
If no tune is required, it means your mass air meter and computer can cope with the difference. If they can do that then it’s not much of a difference.

Or put another way, a significant difference.
A difference worth doing will throw engine codes if you don’t have the proper tune.

SCT is the most common and widely used tuner for our cars.

If you deal with experienced and reputable sellers, they will sell you the appropriate tuner for the mod you are buying.
For your car, the best CAI is the JLT series 3 and it absolutely requires a tune.
If dealing with the big American sites like American Muscle, CJ Pony Parts or LMR, you should call and speak to someone.
They will ask a few questions to get it right.
Such question as what octane tune do you want?
It’s important here to tell them that you want a 91 octane tune because that’s all we have in the maritimes.
So a 93 tune is useless here and if downloaded into your car will damage your engine’s valve train with detonation, because of not enough octane in gasoline.

Thanks for all that. After one of your earlier messages, I was able to cancel the crappy CAI I had ordered and will go with the JLT series 3 that you recommend. I see that Canadian Diesel Online, of all places, has them, but will check some other vendors as well. Car will be in my garage until Spring, so time to do some research, set priorities, make a plan, and start working away at it.

 

[67 AGAIN]

I see tuners advertised for a range of years of Mustangs, up to 2023. I don’t think Ford had unlocked the tuning on the 2024 yet. When I get a tuner, I would like it to have the capability to tune the 2024 once Ford unlocks them. I hope that makes sense.

Like Trevor says above, Tuning can be done from a distance over the internet.
You still need your own tuner to do that.
A tuner(a person) away from you can send you a tune or updates to an existing tune over the internet.
You then load that new tune information into your tuner(handheld device) and dump into your car’s computer.
Good to always use or return to the same tuning house so that they recognize their work and build on that.
Jumping from tuning house to tuning house requires more time for all involved and may cost more.
They start from scratch each time if not working from their own previous and saved work.

I have never worked at a distance like that.
I have always gotten custom tunes on a dyno at Dasilva Racing in Pickering, Ont.

A tuner(device) marries itself to the car in which it dumps a tune.
You need a tuner for each car.
While it dumps a tune in the car, it keeps the stock tune.
So it’s then blocked from being used with other cars.
You can use it to read trouble codes in other cars but it can’t tune other cars.
It’s important to keep the tuner in the car.
If you go to your dealership and they need to do an update from Ford, for example, they need to dump the stock tune back in, do the update and then dump your modified tune back in.
If they did the Ford update on your modified tune they would corrupt it and render it useless.

Having a tuner can facilitate other things.
If you did gears, for example, you can use the tuner to tell the car what gears you put in so your speedo reads accurately.
Same thing if you got tires of a different size.

So you would need a separate tuner for the 2024.
On this note, as I said previously, with each successive generation of the 5.0 Ford is leaving less and less performance on the table.
You are at gen 4 now.
It has no turbos or any other power adders, so unless you plan on throwing some hardware at it, such as CAI, which I don’t know if have been developed yet, or a supercharger, I don’t know that a tuner alone will be able to unlock much.

 

[67 AGAIN]

For the JLT CAI, it may be sold under a different name now.
JLT intakes was bought by S&B intakes.
So It may be a S&B series 3 for your car now.
Not sure on that.
Any of the previously mentioned vendors can tell you.
Everyone in the industry knows the JLT brand, so they will know what is going on.
There is also Mustang Direct in Montreal.
They will bundle a CAI and tuner with a canned tune.

If you haven’t seen it easily on line, that may be what happened.
Possible the one you saw is old stock.
But it would still be the best CAI for your car.
If it is sold as S&B now it won’t be different, just re-branded.

 

[67 AGAIN]

All my research when doing my 08 said that X pipe like Marc said were minimumal
but I read 2-3 HP, Ford left alot in the Tune with 4.6 cold air kit and good tune will net you 15 to 20 HP
equally important, tune will make car react and respsond so much better than stock.

I believe doing suspension on these cars is far bigger deal, they have a lot of body roll and nose dive under braking.
To get better experince of spirited driving a nice handling car improves everything. Improved brakes are always nice,
but later in the game for you. You can do this in bits, I beleive Aaron found local guy for suspension.

I have found a guy here who does alot of Mustangs and does Dyno's also, I have not done deep dive into his Dyno abilities
But that can be done remotely, save you a ton on travel. Palm Beach dyno has great reputation for this.

You have lots of reading to do and even though this can add up, spend some time trying to figure out
where you want to go with this, will save time and money if you do in a good order and end results will be better.

It can get a bit contagious

I read Trevor’s post and get back to basics.
I said it several posts above and Trevor says it here again. Mike mentioned it in his post too that it was one of his favorite mods.

Suspension is a big game changer on these cars.
As much if not more smiles per miles with suspension done over power added.

Also Kevin says he likes to tinker in his garage in winter.

We talk about power, long tubes and tuning because that's like the sexy stuff one can talk about at car shows.
But Kevin is not familiar with the tuning world.

So for Kevin to tinker in his garage or have a mechanic buddy come over and lend a hand, here is some non tuning required stuff that will greatly change the car and make it a fun back road runner.

Everything you have coming so far, including that exhaust.
Plus under drive pulleys and the CAI with a canned tuner. You can dump the tune in yourself.
Dasilva can send you that from Canada now that our dollar is falling even more against the greenback.
They have a black Friday sale starting tomorrow where they will absorb the brokerage and shipping fees.
It will be a tune from SCT and will also improve throttle response, like Trevor says.
That makes a big difference.

Then concentrate on the suspension as described in an above post.
Suspension requires no tuning.
Dasilva can prescribe from their go to recipes if you hit them up for the CAI.
Or if you want to know what I used, it’s on my build thread or hit me up.
I can list each part on here.

And either before, during or after, do the 3.73 gears. Gears don’t require tuning either, except telling the car what size gears you did, which you’ll be able to do with the tuner you’re going to get with the CAI.

Then think about brake upgrade and wider wheels and tires with better rubber compound.
Grippier, wider tires equal more mechanical grip.
Equals better traction for acceleration, cornering and braking.
And no tuning required again.

Enough to keep you tinkering for a good while without any need for tuning.
All of the above equals complete transformation of the car.

Enough so that you may well decide it’s plenty and all you want or need.

Drive that for a year or two.
Then if you decide you want more, we can keep talking.

 

[KBStang]

I read Trevor’s post and get back to basics.
I said it several posts above and Trevor says it here again. Mike mentioned it in his post too that it was one of his favorite mods.

Suspension is a big game changer on these cars.
As much if not more smiles per miles with suspension done over power added.

Also Kevin says he likes to tinker in his garage in winter.

We talk about power, long tubes and tuning because that's like the sexy stuff one can talk about at car shows.
But Kevin is not familiar with the tuning world.

So for Kevin to tinker in his garage or have a mechanic buddy come over and lend a hand, here is some non tuning required stuff that will greatly change the car and make it a fun back road runner.

Everything you have coming so far, including that exhaust.
Plus under drive pulleys and the CAI with a canned tuner. You can dump the tune in yourself.
Dasilva can send you that from Canada now that our dollar is falling even more against the greenback.
They have a black Friday sale starting tomorrow where they will absorb the brokerage and shipping fees.
It will be a tune from SCT and will also improve throttle response, like Trevor says.
That makes a big difference.

Then concentrate on the suspension as described in an above post.
Suspension requires no tuning.
Dasilva can prescribe from their go to recipes if you hit them up for the CAI.
Or if you want to know what I used, it’s on my build thread or hit me up.
I can list each part on here.

And either before, during or after, do the 3.73 gears. Gears don’t require tuning either, except telling the car what size gears you did, which you’ll be able to do with the tuner you’re going to get with the CAI.

Then think about brake upgrade and wider wheels and tires with better rubber compound.
Grippier, wider tires equal more mechanical grip.
Equals better traction for acceleration, cornering and braking.
And no tuning required again.

Enough to keep you tinkering for a good while without any need for tuning.
All of the above equals complete transformation of the car.

Enough so that you may well decide it’s plenty and all you want or need.

Drive that for a year or two.
Then if you decide you want more, we can keep talking.

Thanks for all of that. I spent a good part of the evening reading about tuners and looking at different ones. I also found the JLT series 3 CAI. As you said, it appears that the 4.6 has potential, and a good tune can help bring it to life. I also read some mod threads and a number of people stated, as you did, that 3.73 gears are the way to go. I watched the video on how to install the under pulleys. Didn’t look too bad, other than the puller, I think I have everything else I would need. I appreciate all of the advice and comments.

 

[KBStang]

It seems that Bama and SCT are the big names in tuners. If you buy a Bama tuner on AM, you apparently get free lifetime tunes. Is this worthwhile? Is there a significant difference in these two brand names? I think 8 am going to go the tuner route, but want to buy the right one.

 

[05 gt 5spd]

If you need a crank pulley puller got the 4.6 I have one you can borrow. Also crank bolt is a one time use item, need a new on each time. I have a longer bolt that can be used to pull the damper part way on, the original / new crank bolt is too short to pull the damper in at first.

 

[67 AGAIN]

Bama is the in-house tuner (humans testing parts on cars, writing code and developing tunes) for American Muscle.
They use blank SCT tuners (hardware) and put a Bama sticker on them.
Bama does not make hardware, only software. SCT does both soft and hardware.
If you had them both in your hands, you would see it’s the same tuner.

What makes the difference is the software written in the tuner.
Bama’s is developed by Bama people, and SCT’s is developed by the SCT people.

Lifetime upgrades is a good thing.
It promotes my earlier suggestion to try and stay with the same tuning house once you get going.

They should offer support if you run into issues. And subsequent tunes if you want to further modify. Such as cams and long tubes.
Which would be next step after you check everything off on the previous list.
Or FI, forced induction…

 

[TrueBlue02058]

I enjoyed my 2024 convertible, but missed driving a standard after selling my 2003 5 speed last Summer. I also like tinkering with a car over the winter, and the 24 did not need a lot of work. For a couple of months I have been watching Kijiji, Autotrader, Facebook Marketplace, and other sites trying to find a suitable car. It had to be a GT, standard, and preferably blue. Over the weekend, I found the right car at a dealer in Charlottetown. After giving it a good look over, including crawling under it, test driving it, and reviewing the Carfax report, after a lot of negotiation, I drove it away. The car spent most of its life in BC and Alta, and was represented as having never been winter driven. After looking at the undercarriage, under hood, body, and odometer (109,000 kms), I don’t believe it was winter driven.

Tires will need replacement, but interior is in great condition, clutch is good, all accessories work, and it runs well. Paint is original, and has nice shine, but stone chips were never touched up, and it needs a good clay bar, paint correction, and ceramic coat. I almost ordered the same aftermarket wheels for the 2024, before finding another set. New exhaust has been ordered, along with a CAI, front splitter, and a number of items. Dealer sticker has been removed. The mods on this car may never be done.

Interior and under hood needed a good cleaning and have been done. White bulbs for the fog lights coming.


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Very Nice Kevin

 

[67 AGAIN]

Bama is the in-house tuner (humans testing parts on cars, writing code and developing tunes) for American Muscle.
They use blank SCT tuners (hardware) and put a Bama sticker on them.
Bama does not make hardware, only software. SCT does both soft and hardware.
If you had them both in your hands, you would see it’s the same tuner.

What makes the difference is the software written in the tuner.
Bama’s is developed by Bama people, and SCT’s is developed by the SCT people.

Lifetime upgrades is a good thing.
It promotes my earlier suggestion to try and stay with the same tuning house once you get going.

They should offer support if you run into issues. And subsequent tunes if you want to further modify. Such as cams and long tubes.
Which would be next step after you check everything off on the previous list.
Or FI, forced induction…

In the previous post where I said SCT does both software and hardware, I meant they distribute/wholesale to other tuning houses.
Not necessarily that they manufacture the hardware.

SCT does a bit of direct to consumer work but that is very small part of their work.
SCT is primarily a developer, distributor, wholesaler, tech support and instruction provider to other tuning houses who deliver direct to consumer.

Manufacturing of the tuners (handheld hardware) themselves is likely contracted out.
In the Ford and Mustang tuning world, SCT is the largest supplier of these tuners.

The tuning houses such as BAMA, CJ Pony, LMR, Dasilva and Mustang Direct all use the hardware and some software baselines supplied by SCT.
These guys are all direct to consumer suppliers and pay an annual license fee to SCT for the services.

Also, most if not all the tuners (the people doing the tuning) received training and mentorship from SCT by attending workshops and through subsequent online and phone support.

Except for American Muscle, who re-brands the tuners, if you buy a off the shelf CAI and tuner with genetic canned tuned from any of the other guys, the tuner will be labeled as an SCT and the canned tune will likely be from SCT.
Or a place like BAMA may dump a saved tune from their numerous previous bodies of work.
For example, “such tune has worked well for the last 500 customers who have bought the JLT CAI, so we will sell it to this client as well”.

If you visit one of the places or tuning houses, for lack of a better descriptor, and request a custom tune, they will use the same kind of tuner, albeit empty of software.
From baseline software developed either by or in conjunction with SCT, as well as saved data from their own proprietary work, build your custom tune based on your mods, desires and circumstances around intended use of the car.
This is where the desired octane level of the tune should be discussed as pointed out in previous post.
BAMA and others can do a lot of work remotely based on accumulated proprietary data, customer feedback and experience.
While smaller volume tuners prefer to have your car on hand to work on it.

American Muscle, well they are easily the biggest player by volume so they rebrand the tuners with a BAMA sticker.
BAMA being their in-house tuning department. As said, the tuners are identical hardware. No difference physically.
The difference is the software contained inside the tuner.

So when I go to Dasilva’s for tuning, the tuners are labeled SCT but the tune is custom developed by Matt Dasilva for me.

SCT provides tech support for all their licensed tuning houses.
If out of the ordinary or one off issues come up, tuners can call SCT and benefit from their pool of knowledge of the network of tuners.
Maybe another tuning house ran into the same issue before. If so, the fix can be shared among network members.

I have not researched this point but I would bet that BAMA is part of the same network.
They just market under a different name.
I’ve seen their tuners and it looks exactly like an SCT tuner with a BAMA label stuck on it.

Not to muddy the waters, but the same is also true for Bully Dog tuners in the truck and diesel world. Their tuners are also identical to the SCT tuners. So they either get them from SCT or from the same manufacturer and they put their sticker on them.

So I guess the answer to difference between SCT or BAMA tuners?
Don’t get hung up on the physical tuner.
The more important stuff is the software or tune contained inside.

 

[KBStang]

In the previous post where I said SCT does both software and hardware, I meant they distribute/wholesale to other tuning houses.
Not necessarily that they manufacture the hardware.

SCT does a bit of direct to consumer work but that is very small part of their work.
SCT is primarily a developer, distributor, wholesaler, tech support and instruction provider to other tuning houses who deliver direct to consumer.

Manufacturing of the tuners (handheld hardware) themselves is likely contracted out.
In the Ford and Mustang tuning world, SCT is the largest supplier of these tuners.

The tuning houses such as BAMA, CJ Pony, LMR, Dasilva and Mustang Direct all use the hardware and some software baselines supplied by SCT.
These guys are all direct to consumer suppliers and pay an annual license fee to SCT for the services.

Also, most if not all the tuners (the people doing the tuning) received training and mentorship from SCT by attending workshops and through subsequent online and phone support.

Except for American Muscle, who re-brands the tuners, if you buy a off the shelf CAI and tuner with genetic canned tuned from any of the other guys, the tuner will be labeled as an SCT and the canned tune will likely be from SCT.
Or a place like BAMA may dump a saved tune from their numerous previous bodies of work.
For example, “such tune has worked well for the last 500 customers who have bought the JLT CAI, so we will sell it to this client as well”.

If you visit one of the places or tuning houses, for lack of a better descriptor, and request a custom tune, they will use the same kind of tuner, albeit empty of software.
From baseline software developed either by or in conjunction with SCT, as well as saved data from their own proprietary work, build your custom tune based on your mods, desires and circumstances around intended use of the car.
This is where the desired octane level of the tune should be discussed as pointed out in previous post.
BAMA and others can do a lot of work remotely based on accumulated proprietary data, customer feedback and experience.
While smaller volume tuners prefer to have your car on hand to work on it.

American Muscle, well they are easily the biggest player by volume so they rebrand the tuners with a BAMA sticker.
BAMA being their in-house tuning department. As said, the tuners are identical hardware. No difference physically.
The difference is the software contained inside the tuner.

So when I go to Dasilva’s for tuning, the tuners are labeled SCT but the tune is custom developed by Matt Dasilva for me.

SCT provides tech support for all their licensed tuning houses.
If out of the ordinary or one off issues come up, tuners can call SCT and benefit from their pool of knowledge of the network of tuners.
Maybe another tuning house ran into the same issue before. If so, the fix can be shared among network members.

I have not researched this point but I would bet that BAMA is part of the same network.
They just market under a different name.
I’ve seen their tuners and it looks exactly like an SCT tuner with a BAMA label stuck on it.

Not to muddy the waters, but the same is also true for Bully Dog tuners in the truck and diesel world. Their tuners are also identical to the SCT tuners. So they either get them from SCT or from the same manufacturer and they put their sticker on them.

So I guess the answer to difference between SCT or BAMA tuners?
Don’t get hung up on the physical tuner.
The more important stuff is the software or tune contained inside.

Thanks for that detailed explanation. I have zero experience with a tuner, and little knowledge, so it is all good information.

 

[67 AGAIN]

They’re not hard to use.
For a CAI like you’re planning, you're going to install the CAI. Then dump the tune in with the tuner.
Any vendor will explain how it works. You can likely call them to walk you through the process when the time comes.

The tune will be in the tuner.
You just have to dump it in.
Plug into OBD port.
Turn ignition ON, without starting the car.
The tuner will come on with power from car.
There will be prompts on the screen to navigate with.
Forward and back arrows, up and down arrows, an OK button and a Back button.

Best comparison is like using a video game console.
Follow the prompts. Confirm or back out if not in right spot.
It’ll be intuitive.
Can’t really damage anything.
A wrong action can be reverted.

I’m sure there are how to videos on youtube.