2025 Motorsports Racing Season.
- Thread starter AC Bill
- Start date
Mcdavis
King of the road trip
A bit of carnage in the sprint race, made it fun!
Mcdavis
King of the road trip
Yeah that was a bit of a shocker. Red Bull just can’t seem to get the car right this time, I wonder what changed?
Mcdavis
King of the road trip
Very interesting race, a lot of overtaking, various strategies, a few incidents etc.
Norris looked really good, Antonelli got his first second place, and Max comes from the pit lane to third place - wow!
Piastri did a bit better than last time out, but a 10 second penalty put paid to his threat.
Norris looked really good, Antonelli got his first second place, and Max comes from the pit lane to third place - wow!
Piastri did a bit better than last time out, but a 10 second penalty put paid to his threat.
AC Bill
Well-known member
I enjoyed the entire race weekend. It was a step up from several races this year. That track in Brazil is what all F1 circuits should be like. A challenging layout, but where drivers actually have an opportunity to pass one, It has fairly decent run off areas, no gravel being spilled out on to the track, and a car can continue if they spin, rather than getting stuck, and no grass fires...lol It made for a fairly exciting F1 weekend.
In my view, Piastri and Kimi's contact should have been considered simply as a racing incident, and certainly not worthy of a ten second penalty. You can't blame a driver for something like what happened, he didn't do it on purpose, and there is always some risk involved in trying to pass. If Piastri had made the pass, they would be raving over his incredibly daring, but talented move for the rest of the race.
This business about having to lay blame, simply because a competing car was taken out, is total BS. Accidents happen in racing, and cars often have to retire because of them, it's all part of the sport. I feel there should be no time penalties unless a driver does something to cause an accident on purpose, to be vengeful, to cheat for an advantage, or, they are just blatantly stupid risks.
We do see all of these happen over the course of a season, but unfortunately are often poorly judged. Inconsistency with the steward's decisions, confuse things for teams and drivers, as to what is right or wrong. How often have we seen that over the last few years? Several stewards decisions with races in past years are still being discussed, because they were so controversial. They can make a huge difference to a teams results, which can affect a team financially, sometimes to the tune of millions. Do we have ex-Olympic figure skater judge's now working as race stewards?
There can be no denying that Max still has what it takes. Amazing once again on how he can forge his way to a podium finish after starting at the back of the grid. His skill behind the wheel, and the balls to take some risks, made him a champion. When he's driving the Red Bull car, that's set up to his liking, I don't think any other F1 driver comes close to him. The car has been his downfall this season.
I'd sure love to see drivers get behind the wheel of another teams car, just to see what they could do in them. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?
Could Hulkenburg, or Alonso for example, be consistent winners if driving a McLaren? They certainly have the experience to be winners. How well would Lando do in an Alpine, or Max in a Willaims? What about Hamilton? Does he still have it, or has his time passed? Now with some drivers, (Stroll for example), I think any improvements would be marginal. I think there are a few drivers like that currently in F1 where the car probably wouldn't make the difference, I think it's simply lack of talent, or, being willing to take risks. Some may show a flash of brilliance from time to time, but are inconsistent. I presume its those odd flashes that keeps them behind the wheel, or is it sponsor dollars? They touched about how Tsunoda may be expendable now that Red Bull won't be using Honda power next year.
My big worry is that a truly gifted and potentially a champion driver may never be giving the opportunity to show what they have, simply because they drive a lesser car. Sadly the cars can't all be 100% the same, so the true skills would become obvious.
In my view, Piastri and Kimi's contact should have been considered simply as a racing incident, and certainly not worthy of a ten second penalty. You can't blame a driver for something like what happened, he didn't do it on purpose, and there is always some risk involved in trying to pass. If Piastri had made the pass, they would be raving over his incredibly daring, but talented move for the rest of the race.
This business about having to lay blame, simply because a competing car was taken out, is total BS. Accidents happen in racing, and cars often have to retire because of them, it's all part of the sport. I feel there should be no time penalties unless a driver does something to cause an accident on purpose, to be vengeful, to cheat for an advantage, or, they are just blatantly stupid risks.
We do see all of these happen over the course of a season, but unfortunately are often poorly judged. Inconsistency with the steward's decisions, confuse things for teams and drivers, as to what is right or wrong. How often have we seen that over the last few years? Several stewards decisions with races in past years are still being discussed, because they were so controversial. They can make a huge difference to a teams results, which can affect a team financially, sometimes to the tune of millions. Do we have ex-Olympic figure skater judge's now working as race stewards?
There can be no denying that Max still has what it takes. Amazing once again on how he can forge his way to a podium finish after starting at the back of the grid. His skill behind the wheel, and the balls to take some risks, made him a champion. When he's driving the Red Bull car, that's set up to his liking, I don't think any other F1 driver comes close to him. The car has been his downfall this season.
I'd sure love to see drivers get behind the wheel of another teams car, just to see what they could do in them. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?
Could Hulkenburg, or Alonso for example, be consistent winners if driving a McLaren? They certainly have the experience to be winners. How well would Lando do in an Alpine, or Max in a Willaims? What about Hamilton? Does he still have it, or has his time passed? Now with some drivers, (Stroll for example), I think any improvements would be marginal. I think there are a few drivers like that currently in F1 where the car probably wouldn't make the difference, I think it's simply lack of talent, or, being willing to take risks. Some may show a flash of brilliance from time to time, but are inconsistent. I presume its those odd flashes that keeps them behind the wheel, or is it sponsor dollars? They touched about how Tsunoda may be expendable now that Red Bull won't be using Honda power next year.
My big worry is that a truly gifted and potentially a champion driver may never be giving the opportunity to show what they have, simply because they drive a lesser car. Sadly the cars can't all be 100% the same, so the true skills would become obvious.
Lots of good points Bill, I 100% agree, stwearts need to piss off, let racing be racing.
Seen a joke about Max this week, hes looking for a new group of haters
as current ones are becoming fans. Actually max is a pure racer, has no interest in the
after race stuff and nly does what he has to, he races everything he can whenever he can.
Love sit all, including on a race team and does crazy amountso f sim racing, because he loves it
Guys take holidays, he races something else.
Fun to argue about skills, If you have never seen an F-1 race live ( i have seen 6)
You see stuff TV hides, just how fast they are braking is not even normal
and seeing how fast they accurate is unreal. TV slows it down, becaus eat full speed most people
could not watch. You realize the slowest guy in the slowest car is an amazing talent,
these are arguably the best 20 drivers in the world, yes and some more new talent coming.
Lastly, Elkann comments at Ferrari, yes must be the drivers fault, I am sure that is productive.
Car is slow and they were on par end of last year with Maclaren, now look.
18 years since they produced championship winning car, must be drivers fault.
Even Shumacher has enough sense to Bring Brawn & Todt with him.
Seen a joke about Max this week, hes looking for a new group of haters
as current ones are becoming fans. Actually max is a pure racer, has no interest in the
after race stuff and nly does what he has to, he races everything he can whenever he can.
Love sit all, including on a race team and does crazy amountso f sim racing, because he loves it
Guys take holidays, he races something else.
Fun to argue about skills, If you have never seen an F-1 race live ( i have seen 6)
You see stuff TV hides, just how fast they are braking is not even normal
and seeing how fast they accurate is unreal. TV slows it down, becaus eat full speed most people
could not watch. You realize the slowest guy in the slowest car is an amazing talent,
these are arguably the best 20 drivers in the world, yes and some more new talent coming.
Lastly, Elkann comments at Ferrari, yes must be the drivers fault, I am sure that is productive.
Car is slow and they were on par end of last year with Maclaren, now look.
18 years since they produced championship winning car, must be drivers fault.
Even Shumacher has enough sense to Bring Brawn & Todt with him.
67 AGAIN
Enthusiast
For the incident between Antonelli and Piastri, I call it an incident because there is human error-input involved.
An accident would be an act of God or circumstance beyond a driver’s control.
I watched the race and all the slow motion stuff after.
It’s clear that Kimi turned in on Oscar.
Leclerc left plenty of room on the outside, Piastri was hugging the inside white line right after he locked up.
The guy that caused that wreck was Kimi by turning down too much.
He’s was following Lando’s line but Lando had no car underneath him at the apex.
Kimi had a car next to him and deserved a penalty for human error.
Regardless of the rule about needing to be at the other cars mirror to own the apex, physics and common sense state that you can’t safely turn your car into a space occupied by another car, or about to be occupied by another car in the next millisecond.
Bad things are going to happen.
Piastri was in control and started to back out before the turn.
He only locked up once Antonelli started turning down on him.
It was the only thing left for him to try to avoid Antonelli.
An accident would be an act of God or circumstance beyond a driver’s control.
I watched the race and all the slow motion stuff after.
It’s clear that Kimi turned in on Oscar.
Leclerc left plenty of room on the outside, Piastri was hugging the inside white line right after he locked up.
The guy that caused that wreck was Kimi by turning down too much.
He’s was following Lando’s line but Lando had no car underneath him at the apex.
Kimi had a car next to him and deserved a penalty for human error.
Regardless of the rule about needing to be at the other cars mirror to own the apex, physics and common sense state that you can’t safely turn your car into a space occupied by another car, or about to be occupied by another car in the next millisecond.
Bad things are going to happen.
Piastri was in control and started to back out before the turn.
He only locked up once Antonelli started turning down on him.
It was the only thing left for him to try to avoid Antonelli.
Last edited:
AC Bill
Well-known member
Part of the problem on assessing blame for an incident like Kimi and Oscar had, is the current rules regarding overtaking on a corner.
As the current rules read.
Overtaking on the INSIDE of a corner: To be entitled to be given room when overtaking on the INSIDE, the overtaking car must: i) Have its front axle AT LEAST ALONGSIDE THE MIRROR of the other car PRIOR TO, AND AT THE APEX; ii) Be driven in a fully controlled manner particularly from entry to apex, and not have “dived in”; iii) In the Stewards’ estimation, have taken a reasonable racing line and been able to complete the move whilst remaining within track limits.
A driver's decisions have to happen in a millisecond while travelling at high speed, in the midst of chaos all around you. It would be foolish to risk damaging the cars just because you had the right of way, even if you won't be penalized. Was Kimi simply asserting his right of way according to the rules, or was Oscar willing to risk that Kimi would yield to him? According to the rules, Oscar was to blame. Some Sky F1 videos certainly has it appear that he had his front wheel alongside Kimi's mirror, but... that was before they actually reaching the corners apex. Look closely..contact happened prior to the apex.
https://dubz.co/v/604d47
It would sure be nice to see what the stewards saw. We unfortunately are not privy to those videos, and can make judgment's only on what we see.
The problem partially lies in how the stewards decipher the incident, and the rules themselves. The apex on every corner on every track is slightly different. Maybe they need to paint a line across the track showing the exact point of a corners apex...
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/f1_driving_standards_guidelines_version_4.1_feb_20_2025.pdf
As the current rules read.
Overtaking on the INSIDE of a corner: To be entitled to be given room when overtaking on the INSIDE, the overtaking car must: i) Have its front axle AT LEAST ALONGSIDE THE MIRROR of the other car PRIOR TO, AND AT THE APEX; ii) Be driven in a fully controlled manner particularly from entry to apex, and not have “dived in”; iii) In the Stewards’ estimation, have taken a reasonable racing line and been able to complete the move whilst remaining within track limits.
A driver's decisions have to happen in a millisecond while travelling at high speed, in the midst of chaos all around you. It would be foolish to risk damaging the cars just because you had the right of way, even if you won't be penalized. Was Kimi simply asserting his right of way according to the rules, or was Oscar willing to risk that Kimi would yield to him? According to the rules, Oscar was to blame. Some Sky F1 videos certainly has it appear that he had his front wheel alongside Kimi's mirror, but... that was before they actually reaching the corners apex. Look closely..contact happened prior to the apex.
https://dubz.co/v/604d47
It would sure be nice to see what the stewards saw. We unfortunately are not privy to those videos, and can make judgment's only on what we see.
The problem partially lies in how the stewards decipher the incident, and the rules themselves. The apex on every corner on every track is slightly different. Maybe they need to paint a line across the track showing the exact point of a corners apex...
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/f1_driving_standards_guidelines_version_4.1_feb_20_2025.pdf
Last edited:
there was enough videos for us, and lots of slomo
Oscar was likely a bit over ambitious, fair enough,
but he was far enough ahead and in control when Kimi turned in.
With no room left, Oscar has no choice but to lock up to try and avoid
a hole that is no longer there.
At those speeds, it still wasn't enough, Kimi and Oscar were both lucky not to totally destroy their cars
Leclerc and a bunch of others were affected if you look at chain reaction.
All that said as fans do want them not to try that hard?
Do we want boring races where nobody tries anything because of penalties?
Stewarts need to let them race, when it is outright intentional, give them a penalty.
I watch alot of hockey, refs ruin alot of games,
Stewarts are starting to ruin alot of good racing.
My 2 cents , so its worth what you paid for it
Oscar was likely a bit over ambitious, fair enough,
but he was far enough ahead and in control when Kimi turned in.
With no room left, Oscar has no choice but to lock up to try and avoid
a hole that is no longer there.
At those speeds, it still wasn't enough, Kimi and Oscar were both lucky not to totally destroy their cars
Leclerc and a bunch of others were affected if you look at chain reaction.
All that said as fans do want them not to try that hard?
Do we want boring races where nobody tries anything because of penalties?
Stewarts need to let them race, when it is outright intentional, give them a penalty.
I watch alot of hockey, refs ruin alot of games,
Stewarts are starting to ruin alot of good racing.
My 2 cents , so its worth what you paid for it
AC Bill
Well-known member
I agree, we sure don't want boring races. It's drivers taking risks that make it exciting.there was enough videos for us, and lots of slomo
Oscar was likely a bit over ambitious, fair enough,
but he was far enough ahead and in control when Kimi turned in.
With no room left, Oscar has no choice but to lock up to try and avoid
a hole that is no longer there.
At those speeds, it still wasn't enough, Kimi and Oscar were both lucky not to totally destroy their cars
Leclerc and a bunch of others were affected if you look at chain reaction.
All that said as fans do want them not to try that hard?
Do we want boring races where nobody tries anything because of penalties?
Stewarts need to let them race, when it is outright intentional, give them a penalty.
I watch alot of hockey, refs ruin alot of games,
Stewarts are starting to ruin alot of good racing.
My 2 cents , so its worth what you paid for it
The whole penalty thing appears to centera round where exactly the apex is on that corner.
Last edited:
SVT4MT
Well-known member
16X NHRA Funny Car champion John Force just announced he is retiring.
Greatest interview in motorsports and Force was the face of the NHRA.
People who don't know NASCAR know the names Earnhardt and Petty.
People who don't know Formula 1 know the names Schumacher and Senna.
People who don't know CART know the names Moore and Tracey.
People who don't know NHRA know the name Force.
I'm actually glad to see Force retire, considiering he's probably used up most of those nine lives with some of the crashes he's been in.
I thought he was done after the crash in Dallas 2007, but the tough old bastard fought back and got back in the seat.
Been a fan for over 20 years, started watching the NHRA seasons on TSN back on the early 2000's.
Last edited: