What did you do to your mustang today

Same here, after an engine replacement and 2 clutches in 2 years 2016 and 2017, me and the BULLITT have been keeping a Low Profile with the Better Half. :FordSmile We enjoyed a Trouble Free 2018 with only an oil change and a headlight bulb replacement. :p
 
Nothing bought for black Friday here. The early spring mods, transmission rebuild , never ending alignments and another set of front tires, was enough for this year . Maybe spring time tax return would let me get some stuff. Next for me might be to lower , but it's a pricey job to do it all at once. I might price it all out and see if its something that would be possible in 2019..
 
AC Bill;n27157 said:
So what type of rear suspension are you running, that the panhard bar would benefit, a 3-link?
Click to expand...

It's all stock at the moment. Just read a few articles on the net that said if you lower it in any way the bar is a huge benefit. Max has an extra so I decided to take it off his hands and eventually try it out.
 
Canuck121;n27201 said:
It's all stock at the moment. Just read a few articles on the net that said if you lower it in any way the bar is a huge benefit. Max has an extra so I decided to take it off his hands and eventually try it out.
Click to expand...

Jason, I'm spending more & more time chewing over suspension mods and recall several posts in other threads on what some members have done, from minor to full mod. Maybe we should throw up a thread on suspension mods & see where others have gone, results, etc.
 
When I owned my 08 C/S vert, the car at the end was heavily modded.
my first major mod was suspension. I did it all, complete from springs, shocks
bars you name it. at the time I ordered a complete suspension from Steeda.com
on black friday. Then over winter jacked up car and did complete mods :)
Each year I kept adding until I sold it to buy my current car.

I did complete build on Mustang Canada, which is now closed.
 
Canuck121;n27201 said:
It's all stock at the moment. Just read a few articles on the net that said if you lower it in any way the bar is a huge benefit. Max has an extra so I decided to take it off his hands and eventually try it out.
Click to expand...

When I powered mine the rear end was out about a quarter inch, the adjustable panhard bar evened it right out
 
If you lower the car an 1" install pan hard bar it will make a big difference.
I would likely improve the springs and add a sway bar to front and you would
see a big transformation to stock set ups.
05-10 have very soft suspension with a lot of body roll.
with those mods this would be gone,.
 
Rich06;n27229 said:
When I powered mine the rear end was out about a quarter inch, the adjustable panhard bar evened it right out
Click to expand...

So Jason, I gather you have acquired an S197 car? 05 to 14 model years. Congratulations!
Because the Panhard does not apply to your New Edge Saleen.

As stated above, an adjustable Panhard will be a good addition to any lowered S197.
The suspension geometry on the S197's causes the Panhard bar to move the rear axle to the left or driver's side when lowering the car.
The lower you go, the more it will push it out to the left.
An adjustable Panhard bar will let you re-center the axle back under the car.

Another benefit, as important, is the fact that after market bits have polyurethane bushings instead of rubber.
Factory uses rubber to eliminate Noise, Vibration and Harshness, known as NVH in industry.
Role of Panhard is to keep rear axle centered side to side under the car.
When it is equipped with rubber bushings, these bushings can more easily compress under load than polyurethane.
Thus in moderate to hard cornering. Or just spirited driving, your axle moves side to side under the car.
This gives vague and non confident feel to the car.
You could easily feel this, for example, on a highway on-ramp if there was an elevation and some expansion joints.
You would feel the rear axle twitch over the joints in a turn under the sideways inertia.
Because polyurethane does not compress as easily as rubber, the axle mounted with these bushings will stay in place under the car better.
Less or no deflection side to side. Giving a much more confident feeling, and better response.
Better feedback from the road. Better response from the car.

I get back to my favorite saying; "people don't know what they don't know" in the sense that this will become much more evident after the swap.
So, as long as one's suspension is stock, most people think it's fine.
It's only once the swap is made that one gets the "Ha Haa" moment and realizes that stock was really not good.

Like Trevor says, stock on S197 is soft, lots of body roll and vague on center feel.
Even white knuckle driving at slightly above speed limit on four lane highway.

Funny they call rear suspension on S197's a "three link" setup.
They can't use "four link" because that's the setup on New Edge, SN95 and Fox models.
But, "three link plus one" probably better describes it.
Three control arms, one upper very short, and two lower relatively longer than the upper, plus the Panhard bar.

The two lower control arms are worth changing too to get poly bushings. Not so much the upper.
The lowers because they are mounted outboard and longer, they have much more torque force acting on them.
The upper is very short and stubby, and because it is mounted center of the chassis has less torque acting on it.
Also the upper one, due to its position on the rear end housing will result in way more noise and vibration in the car if changed.
The two lowers don't add any noticeable NVH if changed, but they will reduce or eliminate axle hop if you ever break traction.
Once again, less bushing compression under load when the weight of car goes back on acceleration.
Better force acting on axle, giving better traction and none or less axle hop.

Important if you lower car, to get relocation brackets for those lower control arms to maintain geometry close to factory.
Stock car has slight rake to LCA's where front of LCA is higher then rear, applying weight to axle on acceleration.
When you lower car, front part of LCA goes down with the car, eventually ending up near horizontal.
Now LCA can no longer apply weight to axle on acceleration. You get worse wheel hop if you break traction.
Relocation brackets allow the lowering of the rear of the control arm back to a geometry that closely or exactly matches what the factory had put in.

Another hint, if you are doing springs, get your budget in order and do the struts and shocks at same time.
There is an issue with spring rates and valving of shocks/struts for lowered cars.
Much better return on investment. Again, people don't know what they don't know and the Ha Haa moment.
Savings on future labour. You have to rip your struts apart to install your new springs.
You're there, do the strut at the same time.

Another good addition is Caster-Camber plates. The obvious, they allow better alignment.
But bigger return on handling is that they replace rubber upper strut mount with steal ball bearing type mount.
This eliminates deflection of the upper strut in cornering, making your stang handle like a go cart.
Again, one can't know what this does until after the change.
People are in denial. No way my car can be this bad. Talking about it can't convey it properly...

Good topic. Any questions, please ask. On S197's, I've done all suspension.

I'll put it this way, suspension work on S197 will give you same satisfaction and smile as 50 or 100 extra hp.
It makes that much difference.
 
I agree, One of reasons I did suspension first. If you do nothing else performance wise
do suspension mods. Jason did buy car for wife so likely not needing the performance levels
of most of us silly boys, but that said it is a massive difference in stability and control
for any driver.
 
d
Ohtobbad;n27246 said:
I agree, One of reasons I did suspension first. If you do nothing else performance wise
do suspension mods. Jason did buy car for wife so likely not needing the performance levels
of most of us silly boys, but that said it is a massive difference in stability and control
for any driver.
Click to expand...

It was the one we had on the fall run....red 06 vert. Yes the mods will be on the lighter side with her doing most of the driving :)

That being said I'm sure she'd like the fact that it would corner better with less a little less body roll. She seems to have fun with it as most of us do. Several comments were made to me over the past summer about how it will "go very quickly" and is a ton of fun to have on the highway...lol. One thing we did make better already was the brakes. Better brake pads made a difference so I will do a few things but it won't be heavily modded like I'd do if I was the only driver
 
67 AGAIN;n27243 said:
So Jason, I gather you have acquired an S197 car? 05 to 14 model years. Congratulations!
Because the Panhard does not apply to your New Edge Saleen.

As stated above, an adjustable Panhard will be a good addition to any lowered S197.
The suspension geometry on the S197's causes the Panhard bar to move the rear axle to the left or driver's side when lowering the car.
The lower you go, the more it will push it out to the left.
An adjustable Panhard bar will let you re-center the axle back under the car.

Another benefit, as important, is the fact that after market bits have polyurethane bushings instead of rubber.
Factory uses rubber to eliminate Noise, Vibration and Harshness, known as NVH in industry.
Role of Panhard is to keep rear axle centered side to side under the car.
When it is equipped with rubber bushings, these bushings can more easily compress under load than polyurethane.
Thus in moderate to hard cornering. Or just spirited driving, your axle moves side to side under the car.
This gives vague and non confident feel to the car.
You could easily feel this, for example, on a highway on-ramp if there was an elevation and some expansion joints.
You would feel the rear axle twitch over the joints in a turn under the sideways inertia.
Because polyurethane does not compress as easily as rubber, the axle mounted with these bushings will stay in place under the car better.
Less or no deflection side to side. Giving a much more confident feeling, and better response.
Better feedback from the road. Better response from the car.

I get back to my favorite saying; "people don't know what they don't know" in the sense that this will become much more evident after the swap.
So, as long as one's suspension is stock, most people think it's fine.
It's only once the swap is made that one gets the "Ha Haa" moment and realizes that stock was really not good.

Like Trevor says, stock on S197 is soft, lots of body roll and vague on center feel.
Even white knuckle driving at slightly above speed limit on four lane highway.

Funny they call rear suspension on S197's a "three link" setup.
They can't use "four link" because that's the setup on New Edge, SN95 and Fox models.
But, "three link plus one" probably better describes it.
Three control arms, one upper very short, and two lower relatively longer than the upper, plus the Panhard bar.

The two lower control arms are worth changing too to get poly bushings. Not so much the upper.
The lowers because they are mounted outboard and longer, they have much more torque force acting on them.
The upper is very short and stubby, and because it is mounted center of the chassis has less torque acting on it.
Also the upper one, due to its position on the rear end housing will result in way more noise and vibration in the car if changed.
The two lowers don't add any noticeable NVH if changed, but they will reduce or eliminate axle hop if you ever break traction.
Once again, less bushing compression under load when the weight of car goes back on acceleration.
Better force acting on axle, giving better traction and none or less axle hop.

Important if you lower car, to get relocation brackets for those lower control arms to maintain geometry close to factory.
Stock car has slight rake to LCA's where front of LCA is higher then rear, applying weight to axle on acceleration.
When you lower car, front part of LCA goes down with the car, eventually ending up near horizontal.
Now LCA can no longer apply weight to axle on acceleration. You get worse wheel hop if you break traction.
Relocation brackets allow the lowering of the rear of the control arm back to a geometry that closely or exactly matches what the factory had put in.

Another hint, if you are doing springs, get your budget in order and do the struts and shocks at same time.
There is an issue with spring rates and valving of shocks/struts for lowered cars.
Much better return on investment. Again, people don't know what they don't know and the Ha Haa moment.
Savings on future labour. You have to rip your struts apart to install your new springs.
You're there, do the strut at the same time.

Another good addition is Caster-Camber plates. The obvious, they allow better alignment.
But bigger return on handling is that they replace rubber upper strut mount with steal ball bearing type mount.
This eliminates deflection of the upper strut in cornering, making your stang handle like a go cart.
Again, one can't know what this does until after the change.
People are in denial. No way my car can be this bad. Talking about it can't convey it properly...

Good topic. Any questions, please ask. On S197's, I've done all suspension.

I'll put it this way, suspension work on S197 will give you same satisfaction and smile as 50 or 100 extra hp.
It makes that much difference.
Click to expand...

Ok....so here's where I'm at for my S197 ('13 GT 6 speed vert)... Interested in hearing if you think this is going in the right direction.
Looking at the following
- Eibach Pro System package (lowering springs, front & rear sway bars, struts & shocks)
- BMR adj. panhard bar
- Ford Performance GT 500 lower control arms
- Ford Performance lower control arm relocation brackets

Bump stop kit options?
Is a bump steer kit required?

Not sure what direction to go with caster camber plates. I want to make sure I'll be able to keep the Steeda strut tower brace. Will it fit with caster camber plates or will the Ford Racing GT 500 strut mounts be a better option?

Thinking of leaving the upper control arm stock.

What am I missing? Is the too much, too little or a good fit for a vert mostly casual & some spirited driving. Likely not heading to the track or strip.

As far as mods go, I've done the JLT CAI, BBK 85mm TB & Boss 302 manifold on the intake side and BBK 1-7/8" longtubes, BBK offroad x-pipe & MBRP race series catbacks on exhaust side. Suspension next, then once the stance is settled, will look to wheel & tire upgrades & brake upgrade.

Open for some feedback.
Thanks!!
 
I think your right on, look at drop with springs, you want 1.5 " max for normal driving.
Any more it creates good and bad problems. I would likely do caster camber plates
gives you options when doing alignment. You're going to love the difference.
 
pei_guy;n27262 said:
Ok....so here's where I'm at for my S197 ('13 GT 6 speed vert)... Interested in hearing if you think this is going in the right direction.
Looking at the following
- Eibach Pro System package (lowering springs, front & rear sway bars, struts & shocks)
- BMR adj. panhard bar
- Ford Performance GT 500 lower control arms
- Ford Performance lower control arm relocation brackets

Bump stop kit options?
Is a bump steer kit required?

Not sure what direction to go with caster camber plates. I want to make sure I'll be able to keep the Steeda strut tower brace. Will it fit with caster camber plates or will the Ford Racing GT 500 strut mounts be a better option?

Thinking of leaving the upper control arm stock.

What am I missing? Is the too much, too little or a good fit for a vert mostly casual & some spirited driving. Likely not heading to the track or strip.

As far as mods go, I've done the JLT CAI, BBK 85mm TB & Boss 302 manifold on the intake side and BBK 1-7/8" longtubes, BBK offroad x-pipe & MBRP race series catbacks on exhaust side. Suspension next, then once the stance is settled, will look to wheel & tire upgrades & brake upgrade.

Open for some feedback.
Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Sorry for responding late pei-guy. I only get on here about once a week.
You are on right track with your choices.

The Eibach kit is a quality kit. The pro springs drop the S197 about 1.5 inch in the back and about 1.25 in front.
That is fairly aggressive and will fill that fender gap nicely. I would not go any lower as per hotobbad's counsel.
Eibach manufactures the springs for Ford Performance.
The FP equivalent to the pro springs is the M-5300-K springs. Simply known as the K springs, a popular choice also.
Oddly enough, although Eibach does not offer a less aggressive spring, meaning less drop, Ford Performance does.
They offer the M-5300-P springs. Known as the P springs, they lower the car 1 inch at all four corners.
Still a huge performance upgrade but leaves a little room for rough maritime roads(potholes and frost heaves), going over speed bumps or getting onto ferries or trailers, or entering steep driveways. For a lot of these reasons, rough roads and trailering, I use the P springs.
If you're interested in the P springs, pair them up with the Bilstein HD shocks and struts and you will love the combination.
Otherwise, nothing wrong with that Eibach kit as complete entity.
The Eibach sway bars are, IMHO, the best. I have them.

BMR adj. Panhard, Great choice. That's the one I have.

For Lower control arms and relocation brackets, I would stick with BMR on these parts.

Reasons: for the lower control arms, the Ford GT 500 is still a stamped steel, open face unit with a stiffer rubber bushing only. It's a stock control arm with a slightly stiffer bushing only. No structural or design improvement.
It does not use polyurethane bushings which resist compression more than any rubber and will give more performance improvement for the same or les money.
In contrast, the BMR control arms are fully boxed, square tubing, units which are stiffer and stronger than stamped steel.
BMR uses polyurethane bushings.
BMR makes two identical looking control arms differentiated only by the thickness of the steel used in the construction.
Both will be better than the Ford piece IMO. The lighter gage one is less money than the heavier gage one.
Up to you to decide which you want when you order.

Relocation brackets: The BMR brackets are the best built and use better anchoring points and bolts to you axle.
In fact, they use an additional bolt over the competition such as Steeda, Ford, and so on.
Mat Dasilva (of Dasilva Racing) used several brand son his car and all twisted on him until he hit on BMR.
BMR are the only ones that have held up on his 2005 manual GT quarter mile race car.

Bump stops: if you are referring to small bump stop on the axle to prevent hitting the chassis, don't bother.
You will likely never load your car enough for axle to hit chassis. You would need four adults and trunk loaded to get to that range.
My axle has never hit my chassis. Put money elsewhere.

Bump steer kit: I don't think you need this either.
I don't have one and don't feel I need one.
My understanding is this becomes more relevant, the lower you go.
I have 1 inch drop and don't feel any twitch in front end when I hit bumps.
Whether you go 1 inch or 1.25 inch, I don't think it will make a difference.
For example, Eibach make Sportline springs that drop car almost 2 inches.
If you had that, maybe an issue, but then you would have trouble on all Maritime roads.
This is really only a show or dedicated track car drop.

Since you are debating caster-camber plates or the GT500 strut mounts, I will make it easy for you.
Caster-camber plates every time, all the time.
Reason: The GT500 mount is only a marginal improvement over the stock mount with, again, stiffer rubber only.
Otherwise it is the same piece as stock.
You have to pay for the GT500 mount.
Take that money and put it towards caster-camber plates.
For only slightly more money, you get total alignment capability.
Plus you replace the rubber bushing mount with a steel ball bearing type mount that will eliminate the deflection of the strut in turns.
Your car will benefit from razor sharp turn in response over stock.
I researched caster-camber plates in 2012.
I went with the Maximum Motorsports cc plates. Love them.
Easy to use for alignment. As advertised.

The Steeda strut brace will fit with the Maximum Motorsports caster-camber plates.

Leaving upper control arm stock. Good call. You do not need to swap this part. Use money for caster-camber plates instead.
Reason: It is mounted center of chassis and very short, only a third the length of lower control arms.
It has a lot less torque or leverage forces acting on it.
Also, changing this part can lead to increase noise and vibration due to being mounted on the rear end housing.

What are you missing? Nothing. You will absolutely love your car if you follow this recipe.
Your 5.0 will get better traction for spirited acceleration and you will not believe how much better it will steer and handle over stock.
You will have a "Ha Haa!" moment.

Optional only: You can add to the chassis strength at the point where the Panhard attaches to the chassis.
That's on the passenger side of the car. Ford knew this to be a potentially week part of the chassis and added a brace at the factory to reinforce this area. The brace ties the passenger side Panhard anchor point to the driver side of the chassis with a brace.
Whereas you have a convertible, you can improve this a bit more to reduce flex by swapping out this factory brace, which is non boxed, stamped steel with a stronger boxed or tubular unit.
I use the Steeda tubular Panhard brace for this. It is lightweight chromoly and the driver side attachment point is cleverly boxed for added strength.
BMR makes a boxed version but it is slightly bulkier and not chromoly, and driver side attachment point is not boxed like the Steeda.
Either one will be better than factory.
You will see the difference when you hold both pieces in your hands.

That's it. Happy modding.
 
FYI, here is picture of Ford Racing strut brace, essentially identical to Steeda brace, in place with Maximum Motorsports cc plates installed.
It all fits nicely.

IMG_0853.JPG
 

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